Steady state pacing

[Cyclingman1]

I’m sorry. Very obscure cultural reference to: The Natural w/ Robert Redford as big ol farmboy who carves his own bat for hitting stuff, mainly baseballs. Some querulous muppet will now object that ballbats are usually ash or aluminium rather than oak so to conserve spittle, I may be mistaken about the oak log. Mea culpa. Do you by chance recall Brando in On The Waterfront?

I've never been a a keen observer of most movies, including the Redford and Brando movies, which I did see. I'll take the reference, however. Ji mG

Giving an edge to competitors based on physical characteristics is, for the most part, a terrible idea. The solution is to compete in those activities where on is not at a disadvantage. C2 has distinct categories based on weight. Any other considerations immediately run into problems. A shorter person is given seconds although he may have the strength to bench press 350lb, while the taller guy can manage 150lb. What's fair about that?

[Elizabeth]

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

When aiming for Steady State zone 2, your heartrate should stay below roughly 70% max HR, which is around 120 bpm for you. Then, the 140 bpm might be too high for that kind of training.

Jaapan, congratulations for both answering the stated question and providing sound advice. I would expect the pace to land ballpark 150 watts or 1:12/500m. Long steady state sessions are classic 2k prep and are a staple of my training. 4 hard sessions a week is on the higher end of most training programs, and so don't be afraid to swap one or two of those out for a other steady state session if you're finding that you're struggling with energy. It may allow you to take the harder sessions harder, driving continued progress.

[jackarabit]

Shouldn’t that be 2:12 per 500.

[Elizabeth]

Shouldn’t that be 2:12 per 500.

Well, y'all seemed to think the guy needed to go faster.

Yes. 2:12/500m. Thank you.

[jackarabit]

..

[Elizabeth]

My most current times are in my signature, and I've done about 65k this week in the 2:07.3-2:08.1 range. (Plus some medium intensity meters, plus some hard ones.) Nothing wrong with slowing down.

[jackarabit]

My most current times are in my signature, and I've done about 65k this week in the 2:07.3-2:08.1 range. (Plus some medium intensity meters, plus some hard ones.) Nothing wrong with slowing down.

The prime desideratum in footballer’s query appeared to many/most of those responding to be the 8wk training window. ‘Just answer the question’ is the second oldest debate trick in the book. That question was not answered by several gentlemen possessed of both erging palmares and considerable exposure to the changing fashion in training principle and practise. Imo, he is, at the current time, well-served by a concerted effort to redirect his pre-comp focus.

[Cyclingman1]

I've done about 65k this week in the 2:07.3-2:08.1 range. (Plus some medium intensity meters, plus some hard ones.)

Elizabeth, come on! You did not get to where you are in the erging world doing 2:08. Shall I remind others of your achievements? 500m @1:27.5; 1K @1:35.5; 4min @1:38.1; 2K @1:41.3; 5K@1:47.x. It takes a lot of hard meters to get the anaerobic threshold up to pull those kind of paces for sustained time. Like Mr. Jack says, the OP has a 2 month window to get his time down. Sure, for the long haul, 150K a week done relatively slowly will undoubtedly develop endurance, resilience, and the like. But hard 1Ks, 5Ks, 500m intervals, etc are what will get one to the top of the rowing world. Or in the case of the OP to his sub-7min goal.

[Elizabeth]

I've done about 65k this week in the 2:07.3-2:08.1 range. (Plus some medium intensity meters, plus some hard ones.)

Elizabeth, come on! You did not get to where you are in the erging world doing 2:08. Shall I remind others of your achievements? 500m @1:27.5; 1K @1:35.5; 4min @1:38.1; 2K @1:41.3; 5K@1:47.x. It takes a lot of hard meters to get the anaerobic threshold up to pull those kind of paces for sustained time. Like Mr. Jack says, the OP has a 2 month window to get his time down. Sure, for the long haul, 150K a week done relatively slowly will undoubtedly develop endurance, resilience, and the like. But hard 1Ks, 5Ks, 500m intervals, etc are what will get one to the top of the rowing world. Or in the case of the OP to his sub-7min goal.

Hey Jim, I would actually argue that I got where I am doing 2:08 -- as that has allowed me to build endurance while keeping training load and recovery in a place where I can do the hard work pretty hard. In the last week, I have also done 3x2k with the last one at a 1:43.x, as well as 65 minutes continuous at a 2:00.x. As well as strength and a lot of easy meters. Training isn't just about one specific session, but about the whole program and athlete. OP was asking specifically about pacing for the easy stuff, and doesn't seem to be neglecting the hard work.

For whatever it's worth, I also have a couple of competitions in the next 8 weeks. I can see an argument for pushing the intensity more leading up to those, and it seems like OP is likely already doing more hard sessions in a week than is sustainable in the long-term. No need to worry about pushing the pace for steady state.

[Joebasscat]

d*l265 writes:

There seem to have been an influx of specimens over the last, say ten years that have produced elite standard times(as an amatuer and age-group) off low mileage and not following the traditonal method of low rate and high volume/duration. Most have come from a pevious high level of sport and quite a few are not the standard build of a rower.

Jim G appears to have carved his erg from the butt log of a lightning-struck white oak tree. Actually, the brief arc of his amazing erging career didn’t follow on 35 yrs of riding a desk. OP cflrules needs to get in some road work, possibly at Maffetoneish paces. But not 8 wks out from competition.

Bravo for “The Natural” reference!

[jackarabit]

Elizabeth writes:

For whatever it's worth, I also have a couple of competitions in the next 8 weeks. I can see an argument for pushing the intensity more leading up to those, and it seems like OP is likely already doing more hard sessions in a week than is sustainable in the long-term. No need to worry about pushing the pace for steady state.

OP does indeed mention (latter pages of thread) that he’s doing two speed interval and two endurance interval workouts per week; 2 sessions a day 8 days a week certainly isn’t Pete Lunchtime writ for casual amateurs. So yeah, pulling the handle at 50W or securing the handle and doing zero resistance leg extensions is prolly enuf to stretch and oxygenate muscle tissue—the lower the effort the better for “active recovery.” So of course the “answer to the question” beginning with the capital letter and ending with the question mark is slow down aready.

Some respondents inferred an additional but unstated question in the mention of competition 8 wks away, some did not. Does anyone involved in this nit-picking, sniping, tag-teaming, overlording, navel-gazing hot mess of a thread have the conviction necessary to state unconditionally that physiological alterations (increased brachial extension, capillarization) that build the foundation of superior athletic performance happen over night?

[Cyclingman1]

Does anyone involved in this nit-picking, sniping, tag-teaming, overlording, navel-gazing hot mess of a thread have the conviction necessary to state unconditionally that physiological alterations (increased brachial extension, capillarization) that build the foundation of superior athletic performance happen over night?

Don't forget mitochondrial enhancement, increased cardiac output and blood plasma volume, etc.

Without a team of scientists surrounding someone, how could anyone pinpoint exactly what physiological changes occur with training. What happened to the concept of "getting in shape"? The proof of having gotten in shape is in results. When I improve a good bit in a couple of months, the training must have worked. There is a good chance that some or all of the alterations occurred. I don't really care that ATP production has been enhanced within the mitochondria, etc.

[JaapvanE]

Without a team of scientists surrounding someone, how could anyone pinpoint exactly what physiological changes occur with training. What happened to the concept of "getting in shape"? The proof of having gotten in shape is in results. When I improve a good bit in a couple of months, the training must have worked. There is a good chance that some or all of the alterations occurred.

Nobody disagrees with the idea that intense training will lead to improvements. The questions is what several intense trainings per week will deliver you in the long run. Again, no doubt you'll improve. But the idea behind putting a lot of Zone 2 work in, is that progress might be slower, but will continue for much longer, where is the "every day balls to the wall" approach will plateau much quicker or even lead to injury.

So you making progress isn't surprising, but a good question would be if you would have made more progress by now if you trained more polarized. On an individual level, this is hard to assess, but on larger studies having two groups, you see this difference.

[Dangerscouse]

Does anyone involved in this nit-picking, sniping, tag-teaming, overlording, navel-gazing hot mess of a thread have the conviction necessary to state unconditionally that physiological alterations (increased brachial extension, capillarization) that build the foundation of superior athletic performance happen over night?

Hahahahaahahahaha, in a world of top drawer Jack responses, this has got to be very close to the best.

I bought all of those physiological alterations from Amazon yesterday, so I'll let you know if I go sub 5 by the end of the month

[cflrules]

My max heart rate is about 170-175bpm. I'll be doing some 60 minute pieces - last one was 140bpm, 22s/m, and a 2:08 split. Comfortable, solid row. Are these numbers effective or should I slow things down a bit? Obviously want to make sure the work on the erg is maximizing end results.

When aiming for Steady State zone 2, your heartrate should stay below roughly 70% max HR, which is around 120 bpm for you. Then, the 140 bpm might be too high for that kind of training.

Jaapan, congratulations for both answering the stated question and providing sound advice. I would expect the pace to land ballpark 150 watts or 1:12/500m. Long steady state sessions are classic 2k prep and are a staple of my training. 4 hard sessions a week is on the higher end of most training programs, and so don't be afraid to swap one or two of those out for a other steady state session if you're finding that you're struggling with energy. It may allow you to take the harder sessions harder, driving continued progress.

Thank you Elizabeth and Jaapvan, much appreciated. The 2:12/120bpm/152w is what I'll aim for. Here come some long boring rows lol.