Older ergers

[JaapvanE]

Hi, what Olympics did you compete in and was this in rowing?

I aimed for the Olympics in Downhill skiing, but I destroyed my right knee beyond repair in the lead-up to Albertville in my first senior year (in the '90's we often lost about 10% of the racers per downhill due to injury or worse, just one of the statistics here).

We did a lot of rowing (on Model B's then) on our warm-up for weight training. Although on hindsight, giving a bunch of competitive people a machine that displays time and distance just to warm up is generally a bad idea. Let's say technique wasn't our strong point, it was just brute muscle force.

In my recovery I was on the rower before I could really walk again, just to train my right leg. I continued training on the Erg when returning home. As my university is a regional Olympic training center and a large part the rowers trained there, I was often on the erg together with them. I still had the muscle power, but lacked the fine control as certain nerves in my right leg are still damaged. So I attempted a cross-over, but never had a chance to made the cut. Some people I trained with back then did make it, which is cool for them, especially given the sacrifices they made.

[deadlifting265]

Hi, what Olympics did you compete in and was this in rowing?

I aimed for the Olympics in Downhill skiing, but I destroyed my right knee beyond repair in the lead-up to Albertville in my first senior year (in the '90's we often lost about 10% of the racers per downhill due to injury or worse, just one of the statistics here).

We did a lot of rowing (on Model B's then) on our warm-up for weight training. Although on hindsight, giving a bunch of competitive people a machine that displays time and distance just to warm up is generally a bad idea. Let's say technique wasn't our strong point, it was just brute muscle force.

In my recovery I was on the rower before I could really walk again, just to train my right leg. I continued training on the Erg when returning home. As my university is a regional Olympic training center and a large part the rowers trained there, I was often on the erg together with them. I still had the muscle power, but lacked the fine control as certain nerves in my right leg are still damaged. So I attempted a cross-over, but never had a chance to made the cut. Some people I trained with back then did make it, which is cool for them, especially given the sacrifices they made.

Thanks for the reply.

Fair play for giving it a go, skiing is a tough sport!

I've never attempted skiing, but do/did like watching it when they put it on the TV.

[ranger]

Sure. Have you done the same-- experimented with technique and found the best technique that works for you? I doubt it. And so do YOU have WR rows? Like everyone else who rows, I expect you are not an elite rower at all and you've done nothing about your technique to remedy that

Your attitude that you are a (former?) WR holder and thus the rest of us are thus inferior is just rude and unbecoming a true sportsman.

When it comes to competition technique, my experience is that the more efficient technique always prevails. I've been around FIS when Mirosław Graf and Jan Boklöv popularized V-style ski-jumping. Everybody hated it, but their distances were impossible to ignore. And that is a jury sport where judges deduct points for lack of style. So when you are so convinced that your technique is so good, convince the world by winning races and setting new records. That is all it takes.

And you really should stop making wild assumptions. You don't know me, you don't know what I did and didn't do. I realize that my days that I was training 4+ hours daily to get to the Olympics are decades behind me. I have other more important goals in life. Let's say I won't be defined by "The guy that was fast once". For me, rowing is a nice way to relax. I think that doing sports just for the fun of it and enjoying the companionship of friends while doing that is the higher goal. I got by without rowing-induced injuries for decades. HR nicely in zone as the experts suggest. It prepares me nicely for my primary and secondary sport, so who cares?

You say that you row with a rowing technique that is appropriate for you. How so? How do you row and why? What aspects of your technique did you experiment with in order to arrive at the rowing technique that you now use? BTW, what is your age, height, and weight? I am also curious. If you just row to relax, do you use a monitor, and if so, why? I am also curious. IF you don't care how fast you go, why are you concerned with your technique at all?

[Mike Caviston]

My three WR rows were 2Ks.

And so do YOU have WR rows?

You are WAY too impressed with yourself. In the first place, you didn’t set “three” records so much as you continued to hold the record you already had as you rowed slightly faster times. I had records in two different divisions (Open LW and 40s LW). And my 40s 2K was my lifetime PR, meaning I was faster at 40 than at 27 when I set the open WR! Now that’s impressive! And of course, there are many people who have held world records in multiple categories across decades, and broken their own records within categories along the way. You’re just not that special, and you’re not the great athlete you think you are and never have been. As a runner, you were mediocre at best and I’ve been a faster runner in my 50s and 60s than you were in your 30s and 40s.

[Dangerscouse]

Hi, what Olympics did you compete in and was this in rowing?

I aimed for the Olympics in Downhill skiing, but I destroyed my right knee beyond repair in the lead-up to Albertville in my first senior year (in the '90's we often lost about 10% of the racers per downhill due to injury or worse, just one of the statistics here).

We did a lot of rowing (on Model B's then) on our warm-up for weight training. Although on hindsight, giving a bunch of competitive people a machine that displays time and distance just to warm up is generally a bad idea. Let's say technique wasn't our strong point, it was just brute muscle force.

In my recovery I was on the rower before I could really walk again, just to train my right leg. I continued training on the Erg when returning home. As my university is a regional Olympic training center and a large part the rowers trained there, I was often on the erg together with them. I still had the muscle power, but lacked the fine control as certain nerves in my right leg are still damaged. So I attempted a cross-over, but never had a chance to made the cut. Some people I trained with back then did make it, which is cool for them, especially given the sacrifices they made.

Very interesting and equally impressive.

[Elizabeth]

Don't get me wrong: I respect competitive rowers and the sacrifices they make. But competitive should respect recreational rowers as they simply have set other priorities, and not dismiss their points as not being invalid as their times aren't up to their ideals.

I've been on and off that hamster wheel for various sports, where the training took precedence over work and family life, just to get the required hours in. And to be honest, I am very happy those days are behind me. In retrospect, the goal oriented approach to these sports made them less appealing, and took quite some toll. Just being a recreational athlete, you can just focus on the stuff you like, without any consequences. For me, sport in its purest form.

I absolutely love the fact that I can jump on my rower when I want to, perhaps even meet some guys for a relaxed row (on EXR). No need for ego's and find out who's fastest. Just some guys having a relaxed row and some fun.

JaapvanE, I have hesitated to jump in because I am not an older rower, despite the way I talk. But apparently anyone can post here about anything they like, so-

For the little it is worth, I have a tremendous amount of respect for recreational athletes. There are so many things we could prioritize in life and limited time/energy to do it all. I love how rowing can be competitive or fun or both, and how accessible it can be for such a wide range of people. We have some seriously inspirational older athletes and para athletes at my club.

Also, I had no idea of your athletic background, but how amazing.

[JaapvanE]

JaapvanE, I have hesitated to jump in because I am not an older rower, despite the way I talk. But apparently anyone can post here about anything they like, so-

According to an extremely credible source (my wife), women are generally the voice of reason. Something that might be missing from a debate between old men....

For the little it is worth, I have a tremendous amount of respect for recreational athletes. There are so many things we could prioritize in life and limited time/energy to do it all. I love how rowing can be competitive or fun or both, and how accessible it can be for such a wide range of people. We have some seriously inspirational older athletes and para athletes at my club.

Please note that in no way it is any accusation to competitive athletes in general. Many are accessible and are actually extremely helpful to less performing or less performance driven athletes. When I was recovering, it was those extremely nice guys that kept me going. To me, that shows the true love for a sport in all its forms. It is that welcoming hand that makes the competitive athletes the role models, not their times (although impressive).

And some competitive athletes are truly amazing. My daughter and I once met Kim Polling, who at the time was the number 1 of the world in her weight class in Judo. An absolute beast on the world stage, left no woman standing, but also one of the kindest persons I ever met with a true love for the sport when dealing with kids and less competitive adults. She is the one that takes a kid aside and teaches the technique well in a pleasant way.

And indeed, some older athletes are truly inspirational. On EXR we have a guy in our weekly group row which is 74, and still does around 1.5M/year. When I reach that age, I hope I can still do that. And like you, that is what I love about rowing: it is accessible and appealing to a huge range of people. A nearby club has lessons for over 50, and they run two groups on fridays. A friend of mine rowed a marathon (she used to be a competitive rower) around a central part of the Netherlands with them, and she had a load of fun.

Also, I had no idea of your athletic background, but how amazing.

Please note, we were just guys and girls loving what we did in the snow and happened to be good at it. As a young guy with plenty of energy and few responsibilities, that is easy. Any extra training session is just more fun. Life becomes much more complex when you have to train for competition and have to balance with work/life responsibilities as well.

Now I am just an older guy with a bad leg. Oddly enough when you get around 50, all your friends also start having a bad leg, bad back or bad arm (maybe that is just my friends, don't know). I just have 30 years of extra experience in dealing with it

[Cyclingman1]

This thread has wandered around a bit. At least initially, there was a consensus that age is going to get us all. But lying dormant is the almost subconscious thought that there might be something out there that could reverse the ravages of aging for a while. What if one could take a supplement, start a different, better rowing technique, fiddle with drag factor, or change foot rest location and find 10,20,30 sec knocked off of 2K.

That's where Ranger comes in. Here he is offering an answer to aging on a rower. He should be charging for his advice. Isn't that what snake-oil salesmen did in the 1800s. I'm waiting for someone to report success with the Ranger program. We might all be 6:00 2Kers.

And indeed, some older athletes are truly inspirational. On EXR we have a guy in our weekly group row which is 74, and still does around 1.5M/year. When I reach that age, I hope I can still do that.

It's funny how some in their 40s and 50s think those over 70 are about ready to keel over. At last check there were over 50 people over 70 who have posted sub-8:00 2K rows. I would say that most of us in the top fifty are competitive to some extent. Keeps things interesting. It would be nice if other parts of the country had as much interest in rowing as the Boston area seems to. Most of us are out here on our islands rowing in the garage or basement.

[Elizabeth]

Jim, the individual at our rowing club whom I had in mind brought home some nice hardware from Masters Nationals this summer at 83 years of age. If that's too young, it was inspirational seeing Dottie win her 2k at CRASH-Bs this year at age 101? 102? and with considerably less drama than some of the teens.

JaapvanE, it can be a ton of fun at nearly any stage. A good chunk of the hard stuff I do is either with a team or chasing one of my friends. We've worked out a reasonable handicap so that we can tell who "won" and gets the bragging rights for the next five minutes.

[Cyclingman1]

I hate to bring it up, but there is an ongoing "event" that renews every year in conjunction with C2 rankings that makes a reasonable effort to handicap rowers by age. It tests rowers across ten distances from .5K to M; bodybuilders/sprinters never win. It is imperfect but such rowers as TJO, Justine Reston, Anne Bourlioux, and even Elizabeth Gilmore get to the top of the standings. Of course it is not realtime. I'm surprised it does not have more participation. Many undoubtedly do not know of it. It is at nonathlon.com. Occasionally a rower of questionable merit wins, but rarely. Thanks to the two guys who have done this voluntarily over many years.

[Yankeerunner]

I hate to bring it up, but there is an ongoing "event" that renews every year in conjunction with C2 rankings that makes a reasonable effort to handicap rowers by age. It tests rowers across ten distances from .5K to M; bodybuilders/sprinters never win. It is imperfect but such rowers as TJO, Justine Reston, Anne Bourlioux, and even Elizabeth Gilmore get to the top of the standings. Of course it is not realtime. I'm surprised it does not have more participation. Many undoubtedly do not know of it. It is at nonathlon.com. Occasionally a rower of questionable merit wins, but rarely. Thanks to the two guys who have done this voluntarily over many years.

I'll second that, and enthusiastically. It's now in its 23rd year, and I've used it for extra motivation every one of them. PaulH puts a lot of work into adjusting the scoring each year as performances improve to reflect the advance in what is possible for every age, gender and HWT/lwt.

So far this year it's heavily skewed to the older ages in that you have to go down to 40th place to find anyone under age 46, more than half of them lwts. Only six women in the top 40, which is unusual. Women often are among the leaders.

https://nonathlon.com/ranking.php

[nick rockliff]

I hate to bring it up, but there is an ongoing "event" that renews every year in conjunction with C2 rankings that makes a reasonable effort to handicap rowers by age. It tests rowers across ten distances from .5K to M; bodybuilders/sprinters never win. It is imperfect but such rowers as TJO, Justine Reston, Anne Bourlioux, and even Elizabeth Gilmore get to the top of the standings. Of course it is not realtime. I'm surprised it does not have more participation. Many undoubtedly do not know of it. It is at nonathlon.com. Occasionally a rower of questionable merit wins, but rarely. Thanks to the two guys who have done this voluntarily over many years.

I'll second that, and enthusiastically. It's now in its 23rd year, and I've used it for extra motivation every one of them. PaulH puts a lot of work into adjusting the scoring each year as performances improve to reflect the advance in what is possible for every age, gender and HWT/lwt.

So far this year it's heavily skewed to the older ages in that you have to go down to 40th place to find anyone under age 46, more than half of them lwts. Only six women in the top 40, which is unusual. Women often are among the leaders.

https://nonathlon.com/ranking.php

Used to do this back in the early 2000s. Just looked at it now but the website seems to be a bit fragile.

[aussie nick]

Now I am just an older guy with a bad leg. Oddly enough when you get around 50, all your friends also start having a bad leg, bad back or bad arm (maybe that is just my friends, don't know). I just have 30 years of extra experience in dealing with it

ha. reminds me of this...which probably fits nicely into the older ergers thread

in the mid 90s when I was playing rugby I used to olympic lift in the offseason at a gym run by the British Olympic weightlifting coach. There was an older (probably in his late 50s at the time) West Indian guy who I used to talk with and train a lot. One day I asked him why he never used to do any overhead work...he'd only ever clean or squat. His response..'bad shoulder'....my question ' when did you do that?'. Him '1967'

at the time the fact that he'd been training for at least 20 years...let alone working round an injury for 25+ years boggled my mind but fast forward 30 years and recently I was talking to a young guy in the gym and about how I've had to stop back squatting because of an ongoing bulging disc issue I've been dealing with. He asked when I first injured it and I said....1993!

[PaulH]

Sorry folks, the bug in the forum bit again. Hopefully this time the ban works, and we can quietly look forward to Ranger's triumphant return in March.

[Dangerscouse]

Sorry folks, the bug in the forum bit again. Hopefully this time the ban works, and we can quietly look forward to Ranger's triumphant return in March.

Thanks Paul