Maffetone Heart Rate Training

[mitchel674]

Half marathon today with heart rate capped at 135 and stroke rate of 20. Had to stay at 2:30 pace to keep my heart rate from rising.

Is this exercising? I did cheat a bit at the end and did the last 1000m at 2:00, r24 just to feel a bit of a burn. Heart rate did go up to 150 with that for a bit.

It's definitely exercise. The real unknown for me is how much volume is needed, which like everything else probably varies hugely from person to person even at the same fitness level. For most of us, it is difficult to really go long on the erg, unlike say for cyclists, who can actually get out in the great outdoors. And cyclists' events are in general longer than most erging pieces, so in training longer is a must for them.

At some point it must be too slow - runners don't train by hiking - but capped at 135 sounds like really good training to me.

One other aspect that I have read about is that mitochondrial growth can be inhibited by high lactic acid levels. I don't know whether there's much scientific basis to that, but if it's true, then finishing with a really hard blast might not be something to do regularly.

Thanks for the interesting thoughts. Really my first week trying this, and it takes quite a bit of discipline. I may give it 8-10 weeks and see if I notice any improvement. The volume question is a tough one. I'm going to try for 50-60km per week.

[ukaserex]

As the goal is to lose fat - the solutions will vary and be different for everyone, because, we are all different.

My best advice would be to continue to do what has been working - until it no longer works.

My next words would be to remember we can't out-row a poor diet. Eat intelligently.

[mitchel674]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

[jamesg]

improve my speed

That can come from the stroke itself (basic speed) or from rating (speed in use). Your 70kg and 1k at 200W rate 24 was a very useful test that says you already have a good stroke and can use it.

More aerobically fit

can be taken to mean the ability to use a higher percentage of our maximum resources. This includes heart rate, since resources are delivered, and waste removed, by blood.

Maffetone describes classic distance work: which can give style and endurance. But training for peak is progressive; when there get the pbs, medals, cups and blades on the wall that show you have reached the peak. Then rest, and maybe start again. Cosa fatta capo ha.

[iangallagher]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

I dabbled with HR training for some time when i was a runner a few years ago. It will absolutely get you more fit. Certainly for me, in the case of running, it did improve speed. I guess over time I had to run harder to keep a target heart rate - therefore improving speed in that respect.

I by no means did this religiously but something i dabbled in. I would also run for hours (6+) at time so maintaining a capped HR was important so you dont overcook yourself.

I'm still not sure about this style of training for indoor rowing. Staring at a wall for an hour is about all I can manage. The pain of the shorter interval sessions is far more interesting and bound to make me alot faster and fitter in a shorter time frame as opposed to the long slow stuff. But we are all an experiment of 1

[jamesg]

shorter interval sessions is far more interesting and bound to make me a lot faster

Oarsmen usually do that sort of training in the few weeks before racing, to ensure that the crew stay together whatever, and still use a good stroke. The stroke must stay roughly the same in terms of work done, if not more, but at twice the rating.

The last three weeks of an Interactive 26 x 5 x Level 4:

24 8x45sAN --4x13'UT1 4x4'TR 2x18'UT1 3x12'AT
25 3x1'AN 2X10'UT1 2x3'TR 2x9'UT1 1x10'AT
26 1x3'TR 2x8'UT1 3x1.5'AN 3x45sAN RACE
All plus warmup.
TR and AN will be faster that race pace.

[Dangerscouse]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

I have basically done a hybrid version of Maffetone for the past four or five months. It's probably been a 66/33 split but I have slowed down my slow sessions: they used to be 1:58 pace, but I've dropped down to 2:05, and increased my hard pace and added in the occasional grey zone pace too.

It has demonstrably improved my fitness and pace, but as always is the issue there's nothing to compare against if I would have made better progress doing something differently.

[mitchel674]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

I have basically done a hybrid version of Maffetone for the past four or five months. It's probably been a 66/33 split but I have slowed down my slow sessions: they used to be 1:58 pace, but I've dropped down to 2:05, and increased my hard pace and added in the occasional grey zone pace too.

It has demonstrably improved my fitness and pace, but as always is the issue there's nothing to compare against if I would have made better progress doing something differently.

Good advice, Stu. I certainly cannot argue with your recent gains. I just don't want to sabotage my slow sessions by doing too much high speed or interval work. I almost feel like that is why I'm at my present plateau.

[Dangerscouse]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

I have basically done a hybrid version of Maffetone for the past four or five months. It's probably been a 66/33 split but I have slowed down my slow sessions: they used to be 1:58 pace, but I've dropped down to 2:05, and increased my hard pace and added in the occasional grey zone pace too.

It has demonstrably improved my fitness and pace, but as always is the issue there's nothing to compare against if I would have made better progress doing something differently.

Good advice, Stu. I certainly cannot argue with your recent gains. I just don't want to sabotage my slow sessions by doing too much high speed or interval work. I almost feel like that is why I'm at my present plateau.

There are so many variables to account for, I'd follow your gut instinct, and as long as you follow it for a notable amount of time you can then gather enough evidence of its efficacy or lack thereof.

[MiddleAgeCRISIS]

My goal is not to lose fat. Rowing these past 2 years has already taken off all of my body fat. I'm currently at 154lbs and 6ft tall. The most I ever weighed was 171lbs a few years ago.

My goal with this Maffetone training is to get more aerobically fit. I would hope it would also improve my speed in the long run.

That's awesome to hear on the fat loss. I did a mountain bike ride today with lots of climbing. It's the first proper one for a long time as i've been nursing a knee injury.

After 72 days and 1.4m metres of maffetone a couple of things stick out over a 2 hour 40 ride.

1) I had two slices of toast for breakfast and didnt bonk on a route with severe climbs.
2) my ability to sustain a decent cadence uphill has greatly improved
3) i didnt burn my legs at any stage even with HRs of 180.

So from my starting position of being strong , fat , and having to burn my legs on climbs - its really helped me.

I dont think it's made my low pull stronger rowing but its enabled me to hold a decent output say 75% all day long.

Im going to aim for 3 m metres in the season by September and I'm going to review where i am with strength at that point.

[gisborne]

Toward the end of the season this year I rowed 600k in about 7 weeks, all at UT2. I was not in great shape to begin with and by the end my fitness was basically the same as when it started.

March 12, 2020: 7.5k meters, 2:33.5 pace, 126 HR
April 27, 2020: 12.5k meters, 2:33.6 pace, 127 HR

I did about 450k meters between the 2 workouts.

[Tony Cook]

Toward the end of the season this year I rowed 600k in about 7 weeks, all at UT2. I was not in great shape to begin with and by the end my fitness was basically the same as when it started.

March 12, 2020: 7.5k meters, 2:33.5 pace, 126 HR
April 27, 2020: 12.5k meters, 2:33.6 pace, 127 HR

I did about 450k meters between the 2 workouts.

Why are you saying your fitness was the same?
If it’s based on the two workouts you mentioned then you’ve taken two vastly different distances so are not comparing like for like. Also not included other variables e.g. temperature, humidity, what training you had done up to each piece.

[Dangerscouse]

Toward the end of the season this year I rowed 600k in about 7 weeks, all at UT2. I was not in great shape to begin with and by the end my fitness was basically the same as when it started.

March 12, 2020: 7.5k meters, 2:33.5 pace, 126 HR
April 27, 2020: 12.5k meters, 2:33.6 pace, 127 HR

I did about 450k meters between the 2 workouts.

Why are you saying your fitness was the same?
If it’s based on the two workouts you mentioned then you’ve taken two vastly different distances so are not comparing like for like. Also not included other variables e.g. temperature, humidity, what training you had done up to each piece.

I agree with Tony. There are a lot of variables to take account of for HR so it's never as simple as a lower HR equals better fitness.

Also doing an additional 5k will almost certainly give some cardiac drift, so the lack of it is probably confirming better fitness.

[gisborne]

Toward the end of the season this year I rowed 600k in about 7 weeks, all at UT2. I was not in great shape to begin with and by the end my fitness was basically the same as when it started.

March 12, 2020: 7.5k meters, 2:33.5 pace, 126 HR
April 27, 2020: 12.5k meters, 2:33.6 pace, 127 HR

I did about 450k meters between the 2 workouts.

Why are you saying your fitness was the same?
If it’s based on the two workouts you mentioned then you’ve taken two vastly different distances so are not comparing like for like. Also not included other variables e.g. temperature, humidity, what training you had done up to each piece.

I just picked a couple workouts from my log. I have many others that lead me to that belief:

March 23, 2020: 10k meters, 2:30.7 pace, 134 HR
April 24, 2020: 10k meters, 2:35.2 pace, 129 HR

I'm rowing at a pace that is 10-15 seconds slower than the previous slowest splits ever. I guess I was just expecting better results from doing 500k meters given that 2 years prior I had workouts like this (no HR):

December 22, 2018: 17.5k meters, 2:12.2 pace
December 5, 2018: 15k meters, 2:03.8 pace

I doubt I would have even been able to do 4x2k intervals at 2:04 pace at the end of this April. I've now added one high intensity workout per week. I'm hoping that will work better.

[nick rockliff]

Toward the end of the season this year I rowed 600k in about 7 weeks, all at UT2. I was not in great shape to begin with and by the end my fitness was basically the same as when it started.

March 12, 2020: 7.5k meters, 2:33.5 pace, 126 HR
April 27, 2020: 12.5k meters, 2:33.6 pace, 127 HR

I did about 450k meters between the 2 workouts.

Why are you saying your fitness was the same?
If it’s based on the two workouts you mentioned then you’ve taken two vastly different distances so are not comparing like for like. Also not included other variables e.g. temperature, humidity, what training you had done up to each piece.

I just picked a couple workouts from my log. I have many others that lead me to that belief:

March 23, 2020: 10k meters, 2:30.7 pace, 134 HR
April 24, 2020: 10k meters, 2:35.2 pace, 129 HR

I'm rowing at a pace that is 10-15 seconds slower than the previous slowest splits ever. I guess I was just expecting better results from doing 500k meters given that 2 years prior I had workouts like this (no HR):

December 22, 2018: 17.5k meters, 2:12.2 pace
December 5, 2018: 15k meters, 2:03.8 pace

I doubt I would have even been able to do 4x2k intervals at 2:04 pace at the end of this April. I've now added one high intensity workout per week. I'm hoping that will work better.

I would say at your age, height and weight, what you think is UT2 is probably more like UT3 and not having much if any training effect.