First Time Marathon

[edinborogh]

Certain you don't want to do a verifiable, rankable, unforgetable, scrapbook certificatable half marathon? After you finish you could take a moment to stretch and then tack on a few more kilometers if you feel strong.

half a marathon was unforgiving for me. took me 2-3 days to get my "balance" back. it felt as if i was "high" and at the same time very tired. i want to try 30KM. the extra 12KM are no joke, and they will be hard to do. i dont believe ill be able to pull them out. IF i will feel that i can, i will take it 2K at a time and be very in tune to myself and my condition.

[Steve1960VA]

half a marathon was unforgiving for me. took me 2-3 days to get my "balance" back. it felt as if i was "high" and at the same time very tired. i want to try 30KM. the extra 12KM are no joke, and they will be hard to do. i dont believe ill be able to pull them out. IF i will feel that i can, i will take it 2K at a time and be very in tune to myself and my condition.

I made my first HM attempt last Sunday morning. Decided to stop at 18,100M and see the impact of just that. Yeah, even "just" a HM is challenging, for me. Good luck with your work.

[Steve1960VA]

...

ooh...

There's typo goblin up to tricks,
Hidden words it sneaks and picks;
It lurks within a sweet sonnet,
and gobbles up an alphabet.

So be well aware, be wary,
of this gobbling goblin fairy;
It sneaks into your poetry,
and helps itself to lunch for free.

It leaves your pretty words bereft,
in a wicked little letter theft.
Hyphens meant for bifurcation,
are gobbled up with punctuation.

It nibbles on the apostrophe,
I sense it creeping up on me...
- Roann Mendriq

I like. Amusing. Thanks for posting.

[edinborogh]

April 2nd update:

i didnt do any stretching, and took the first 2K as worm up.
i managed to row 2 hours, and complete 22,555 meters, with av. split of 2:39. i took on an av. 16spm's. HR av. was 143. but during the session i picked all the way to 156Bpm and towards the end dropped as low as 132 Bpm. could not find the power to get it higher with better drives.

physically i drunk a lot before, and a bit during. my head hurts now but other then that my body is ok.
i used petroleum gel before i started so no major skin chuff to report.

so what went wrong? my goal was to see what happens once you get to 30Km. i failed.
i think i was very busy with my heart rate, with my splits, with my drinking and general state. ill need to reproduce the same session but this time not to worry about so many things along the way.

the reason i believe that caused me to give up was the PM - seeing that i did 2 hours but there is almost the same amount of time left - broke me. i need to get tougher then that.

as always thanks to all of your advices and information!

[bisqeet]

April 2nd update:

i didnt do any stretching, and took the first 2K as worm up.
i managed to row 2 hours, and complete 22,555 meters, with av. split of 2:39. i took on an av. 16spm's. HR av. was 143. but during the session i picked all the way to 156Bpm and towards the end dropped as low as 132 Bpm. could not find the power to get it higher with better drives.

physically i drunk a lot before, and a bit during. my head hurts now but other then that my body is ok.
i used petroleum gel before i started so no major skin chuff to report.

so what went wrong? my goal was to see what happens once you get to 30Km. i failed.
i think i was very busy with my heart rate, with my splits, with my drinking and general state. ill need to reproduce the same session but this time not to worry about so many things along the way.

the reason i believe that caused me to give up was the PM - seeing that i did 2 hours but there is almost the same amount of time left - broke me. i need to get tougher then that.

as always thanks to all of your advices and information!

r16 is usually at the very extreme of my low rate stuff.
I tend to try and use it as "more legs power" session, as i find that the initial moment usually needs a lot of power (hence the legs) to get the wheel moving.
very good stuff, but hard to keep up. i don't use a lot of drag anyway nowadays (i usued to use 140 for everything, now its about 110) - but i could imagine high drag makes it a very hard session..

2 hrs is a long time regardless of pace / rate - well done for sticking in there!

maybe something like 5x6km intervals would be a good alternative?
use a capped HR for the sessions (i.e. 140) and use that as your guide, try and keep your watts per stroke constant and lower or up the rate to bounce along the HR cap
the rest periods should be adaptable - start the next session when HR has returned to 2xRHR (Rest heart rate)
use the intervals for drinking, moving around (stop chaffing, wipe sweat etc.)

advantages:
stopping in your comfort HR zone.
plenty of rests for hydration, moving

[edinborogh]

April 2nd update:

i didnt do any stretching, and took the first 2K as worm up.
i managed to row 2 hours, and complete 22,555 meters, with av. split of 2:39. i took on an av. 16spm's. HR av. was 143. but during the session i picked all the way to 156Bpm and towards the end dropped as low as 132 Bpm. could not find the power to get it higher with better drives.

physically i drunk a lot before, and a bit during. my head hurts now but other then that my body is ok.
i used petroleum gel before i started so no major skin chuff to report.

so what went wrong? my goal was to see what happens once you get to 30Km. i failed.
i think i was very busy with my heart rate, with my splits, with my drinking and general state. ill need to reproduce the same session but this time not to worry about so many things along the way.

the reason i believe that caused me to give up was the PM - seeing that i did 2 hours but there is almost the same amount of time left - broke me. i need to get tougher then that.

as always thanks to all of your advices and information!

r16 is usually at the very extreme of my low rate stuff.
I tend to try and use it as "more legs power" session, as i find that the initial moment usually needs a lot of power (hence the legs) to get the wheel moving.
very good stuff, but hard to keep up. i don't use a lot of drag anyway nowadays (i usued to use 140 for everything, now its about 110) - but i could imagine high drag makes it a very hard session..

2 hrs is a long time regardless of pace / rate - well done for sticking in there!

maybe something like 5x6km intervals would be a good alternative?
use a capped HR for the sessions (i.e. 140) and use that as your guide, try and keep your watts per stroke constant and lower or up the rate to bounce along the HR cap
the rest periods should be adaptable - start the next session when HR has returned to 2xRHR (Rest heart rate)
use the intervals for drinking, moving around (stop chaffing, wipe sweat etc.)

advantages:
stopping in your comfort HR zone.
plenty of rests for hydration, moving

hey Dean,
your HM pace are super impressive!!!

[bisqeet]

hey Dean,
your HM pace are super impressive!!!

Thanks, although I have still yet to do a fast one.
Been off the erg for two weeks now with a combination of seminar /manbola.
I still have one goal left of the year and is a sub 80 min. HM.
Not sure, when I'm going to fit it in.
The body gets used to the distance, now anything less than a Hm feels inadequate...

[Edward4492]

Edinborough, I think your problem (your words) is.....that there IS no problem! You've advanced extremely quickly, well past the point you thought you would to do a FM. So maybe time to cycle back from the emphasis on going longer, and let's think about some minor increases in speed. Maybe drop the pace for 10k, work towards hitting 2:20 or 2:25. It takes a long time to build endurance, a month ago you couldn't fathom rowing 5k or 30min at a time.

You're doin' great! Start another training cycle and build it back up again.

There's also something of a mis-conception with endurance athletes that it's all about fueling. eating is important, but you can't fuel your way around fitness. I did my FM PR with one banana and two water bottles (3:04). You can't short cut your training, it takes time.

[jackarabit]

Please revisit Dean's comments re: maintaining 16 strokes/minute over 2 hrs. Too much work in the stroke even at 2:39 pace. I'm mildly surprised that such a tall gear didn't induce leg cramps?

[Edward4492]

Dead on Jack. Low rate work is a slightly advanced training method; lots of work per stroke at those low rates even at modest paces. I find my "default" rate for endurance work always seems to self-select at 23-24spm.

[edinborogh]

Edinborough, I think your problem (your words) is.....that there IS no problem! You've advanced extremely quickly, well past the point you thought you would to do a FM. So maybe time to cycle back from the emphasis on going longer, and let's think about some minor increases in speed. Maybe drop the pace for 10k, work towards hitting 2:20 or 2:25. It takes a long time to build endurance, a month ago you couldn't fathom rowing 5k or 30min at a time.

You're doin' great! Start another training cycle and build it back up again.

There's also something of a mis-conception with endurance athletes that it's all about fueling. eating is important, but you can't fuel your way around fitness. I did my FM PR with one banana and two water bottles (3:04). You can't short cut your training, it takes time.

thats an interesting take on the matter. working to reduce split time on a 10K is something i can do and it will not disable me to row longer sessions as well. maybe i could do 10K with a faster pace and the rest ( 5K more, or even more then that ) at the "normal ( for me that is ) pace. ill give it a try.

[edinborogh]

Dead on Jack. Low rate work is a slightly advanced training method; lots of work per stroke at those low rates even at modest paces. I find my "default" rate for endurance work always seems to self-select at 23-24spm.

so i guess that my sweet spot is at around 17-18 Spm's. i'd rather focus on maintaining ( what ever little power i have ) that then risking higher pace and running my heart rate to the roof..

[jackarabit]

Edinborogh, do I understand you to say to Edward that you are able and willing to "reduce the split" (increase pace) at ~10k distance and in the post immediately following to say, in response to Dean's suggestion of a slightly higher rate (repeated by me) that increased pace will push your heart rate to an unacceptable level. I assure you that I am not askng you to either increase or even maintain your stroke power when you first attempt a higher rate. If your "sweet spot" really is 18spm, that's the rate which will maximize your current endurance rowing range by decreasing the work per stroke and keeping your legs in the game longer.

16 rate produces an unnaturally long pause at the finish for rowers of your hgt. (172cm). I know because I''m roughly your hgt. You say the 16 rate prevents cardio-pulmonary overload. I believe you as I also had the cigarette habit for 6 yrs. longer than you've been alive and know a thing or two about trying to accomodate fitness, athletic goals, and chemical suicide in the same body. Please put your ultimate sustained distance goal aside long enuf to develop the physical condition necessary to its accomplishment. Indomitable will is useful also but can only work thru the conditioned body. A guy who would build a wall better learn to love lots and lots of little bricks!

[bisqeet]

i guess a lot depends on your breathing rhythm.
I do prefer some ratings over others simply for the breathing rhythm-
- i usually breath in during the drive, out on the recovery unless im rowing like a madwomens breakfast, where it will be 2 breaths a stroke ; usually about the 26-30+ mark

i also tend to get the hands over the knees quite quick on the recovery (its an OTW thing), before sliding. So a R18 for me is a long recovery.
i'm also 195 - so my drive is usually quite long.

18-20 sounds like it suits you - especially for a FM

upping the rating would lower the power / stroke (at same pace). some find it easier - especially for longer rows...

[edinborogh]

Edinborogh, do I understand you to say to Edward that you are able and willing to "reduce the split" (increase pace) at ~10k distance and in the post immediately following to say, in response to Dean's suggestion of a slightly higher rate (repeated by me) that increased pace will push your heart rate to an unacceptable level. I assure you that I am not askng you to either increase or even maintain your stroke power when you first attempt a higher rate. If your "sweet spot" really is 18spm, that's the rate which will maximize your current endurance rowing range by decreasing the work per stroke and keeping your legs in the game longer.

16 rate produces an unnaturally long pause at the finish for rowers of your hgt. (172cm). I know because I''m roughly your hgt. You say the 16 rate prevents cardio-pulmonary overload. I believe you as I also had the cigarette habit for 6 yrs. longer than you've been alive and know a thing or two about trying to accomodate fitness, athletic goals, and chemical suicide in the same body. Please put your ultimate sustained distance goal aside long enuf to develop the physical condition necessary to its accomplishment. Indomitable will is useful also but can only work thru the conditioned body. A guy who would build a wall better learn to love lots and lots of little bricks!

by reducing the pace i mean inputing less power p/stroke. i do agree that 18Spm should be more natural to me as its not having a significant pause while in motion.
so kick the smoking away, better condition your body and then be better ready for a long distance is your advice. if only it was as simple as that..