UT2/Polarization (trying to move this from PB thread)

[Shawn Baker]

Probably true Henry looks like he just put up a 2:45 1k also though

[hjs]

Probably true Henry looks like he just put up a 2:45 1k also though

1k is not 2k, really different. Needs much more power and totally different training.

[G-dub]

I guess that would be my question. Is he improving his 2K training like that or is he training for something else.

[hjs]

I guess that would be my question. Is he improving his 2K training like that or is he training for something else.

Not really clear from his text, didn,t search about anything else. He talked about doing a lot of 100 meters. Which look logic

Toprowers seldom do 1k TT, they always come from the longer side.

[jackarabit]

Anyone else here find the primary evidence from sports physiology a bit opaque? Summaries from textbooks appear to have greater appeal to many of us.

[Shawn Baker]

I think his focus is the shorter stuff and he wants to break 1k world record- lots of lifting and sprinting, not much LSD- not sure if he will be doing any 2k stuff

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

This is why I almost always avoid getting into discussions like these... People think that sharing one anecdote here or showing one example there irrefutably proves their point of view, while the other side has mountains of evidence gathered over decades, across multiple sports disciplines, across thousands of athletes, and yet those few on the other side hold up their ONE example as evidence that has more weight than the evidence the other side has.

In short, those sorts of people will never be convinced - because they have zero interest in actually learning or engaging in an intelligent discussion.

[hjs]

Anyone else here find the primary evidence from sports physiology a bit opaque? Summaries from textbooks appear to have greater appeal to many of us.

Not to me, the great problem with science in sports is finding the right athletes. The ones you want and need. Top athletes seldom voluteer. Its always students etc. Other point is that trainers often don,t wanna give there secrets away.

[hjs]

I think his focus is the shorter stuff and he wants to break 1k world record- lots of lifting and sprinting, not much LSD- not sure if he will be doing any 2k stuff

The sprinters/sprinting needs a thread on their its own.

Don,t even know what the Wr is, there are some sub 2.40 guys. In estonia is a big 1k race annually.

[Shawn Baker]

Armando- I posted that example not to counter the argument that training for longer distances doesn't require a lot of aerobic work- clearly a lot of evidence supports that approach. If and when I start to focus on 2ks I'll include a lot more of it (but never to the extent that top Olympic guys do because I just don't have the kind of time to put in 200k+ meters per week)- I think the point being that LSD stuff makes you slower for the shorter distances- not much research has been done with regard to rowing distances below 2k-as an aging athlete I have to wonder what distance is ideal for health. I think it is a good question?? Do we focus on distance to improve V02 max at perhaps the detriment of strength or do we focus on shorter sprinting distances that require more strength but not as much V02 max potential. I obviously have my biases regarding the answer but respect contrasting opinion!- by the way nice 2k the other day (6:20 soon!)

[RBFC]

One can do huge amounts of base-building and follow the recommended programming from "multitudes of sports over decades" and still never pull a 6:00 2K, because one doesn't have the power to pull a sub-1:30 500m. Just as Sam Loch said "like asking a cheetah to jog", I said "you don't tell Usain Bolt that he needs to run more marathons." Aerobic base can be developed by almost everyone. High power, as Jim once stated, is a "luxury" not enjoyed by all.

There is an intolerance here for athletes who have different gifts and wish to specialize in events that favor those gifts. One last time, I will state that the regular posters here are dooming themselves to continual conversations with the very few members that remain. I'm sorry that the dogmatic approach to "2K or get lost" has handicapped the growth of this community.

Lee

[bisqeet]

i come from a cycling background - as such one of my heroes was Graeme Obree (the flying scotsman).

he was known for his weird training methods, nutritional ideas (Jam Butty : jam on bread was his main training food) - and general unorthodox riding style.
he once turned up to race in doc martin boots and a rain coat and used to ride his bike to events (from scottand).

he did however break many world records, speed records and whatnot.

anyway - what I mean to say is that this guy was as unorthodox as you can get, but (in my opinion) his natural athletic and sporting ability got him there - i'm pretty sure his training methods wouldn't help many others achieve this state of fitness.

UT2 / Polarization is a specific training method for some - others having different targets might be better of suited looking for another...

horses for courses..

[G-dub]

Lee, many of us share your desire for a bigger tent and more folks contributing more. And it is the time of year when many are focused on 2K since there are races going on. I would also guess that 2K is the distance most scrutinized be used it is the one raced at most often. So I think there is a reasonable reason for the 2K focus. Stay with us! And it would be great if a sprint focus thread was started. I would enjoy learning a bit more about that angle and I'm sure others would too.

[Cyclingman1]

Yeah, it's not strange that 2K is a focus. Beyond Crash-B there may be ten thousand or so participants across the country racing 2Ks.

Another angle on shorter distances <= 500m, is whether improving at shorter distances will have an impact on 2K. Not for those already predisposed, but for those who are relatively slow. I wonder if anyone has really worked on shorter distance speed and seen an improvement in >= 2K or perhaps no change.

Also, regarding training details. Again, it's not strange that it would be debated. Let's say someone has been training a certain way for a couple years, but is stagnant. It makes sense to question one's program. Probably something needs to change. Either execution or a new plan.

[mdpfirrman]

Greg mentioned it specifically that if your focus is strength or shorter duration events you should train differently. I looked up a lot of that information about that Koch guy that Shawn mentioned. He believes in "primal training", which looks like Cross Fit type of stuff. Lots of heavy (but higher rep) weights (which seems odd for a guy looking for power so he's doing more endurance lifting) and shorter rows. He also participated in a WR 24 hour row two years ago so he's done some cardio workouts too. Don't let him say he's not doing cardio with the type of lifting / routines he's doing. Also find it telling that his long SS cardio stopped when he stopped focusing on the Olympics.

I enjoy the different views too Lee. I lack power. Now why not focus on power? I'd like to actually but I have a crap right knee that would have crumbled four years ago if I tried a dead lift. For two years I couldn't leg press 20 lbs with that leg. I'm building strength through tons of volume (and also 3 years of spinning). I'm just at the point now where I feel I might be able to dead lift (ten years after my knee blew up).

I think the mixed opinions are a great way to learn and I'm open minded. I've been doing the Pete Plan religiously for 3 months (going on 4) but even on Pete's page, he has some HITT rowing workouts that are not on the Pete Plan that focus on shorter pieces. He and some other rowers did the shorter stuff (like 100m intervals) when prepping to break the marathon team record. Nothing wrong with focusing on strength, even if you're trying to get stronger at all distances (like me). I think you can work on strength and aerobic capacity simultaneously with enough work and the right plan. I plan on doing more periodization work like some of the articles mentioned above suggest (and like Greg and Chris do).