Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

Post your "my work is done" stroke on video of you sculling

I didn't say my work on technique is done OTW.

I have all kinds of problems with my OTW technique that I continue to work on.

As I mentioned, I think I can get better, year after year, for the next ten years.

What I said is that if I do 2:05 @ 26 spm for 2.5 miles this Sunday, just rowing easily, I will do as well as you.

Different claim entirely.

ranger

I stand corrected then.
I drew my conclusion based on your statement that you "use the same stroke on the water as you use on the erg" (or some similar phraseology)

Evidently you must have two strokes/.... but your existing OTW videos show your erg stroke in use...

I suppose you need to clarify some more
\



You really are a piece of work! (Force x distance) instead of boat speed

[mrfit]

covering 20miles in an hour at 160 bpm? Good work. That's around 230 watts.

Do you have a graph that plots watts against speed for the Kurt Kinetic?

If so, could you post it?

That would be interesting.

ranger

Here:

http://img221.imageshack.us/f/speedandpowergraph.png/

One calibration (more calibration??!) you might want to check is that it takes 13 seconds to coast down to total stop once you hit a 20mph steady speed. Loosen the clamp pressure if it stops too quickly. Tighten it if it takes too long. Run 90-100lbs of pressure in your rear tire. Keep your chain lubed. I used this method before I had a powermeter and found it very accurate when I compared it to real power as reported by my SRM system.

[mikvan52]

Instead of my being a nay-sayer... let me provide some useful footage that just cam out on how to steer the Head of the Charles.... a race you plan to enter next year.

This is Sean Wolf who will scull the 1x in 10 days...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... rqZ2lvvlUU



http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... A0201SHg1E

[ranger]

Mike--

What are you shooting for at the Head of the Charles in two weeks?

2:05 @ 26 spm?

ranger

[ranger]

Instead of my being a nay-sayer... let me provide some useful footage that just cam out on how to steer the Head of the Charles.... a race you plan to enter next year.

This is Sean Wolf who will scull the 1x in 10 days...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... rqZ2lvvlUU



http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... A0201SHg1E

Not sure what your point is, Mike.

Sean has nothing to do with how old men like you row.

Right off the bat, OTW, you row 15 seconds per 500m slower than the best young rowers.

Why?

And the same is true OTErg.

Why?

Hint:

It doesn't have anything to do with technique.

ranger

[PaulH]

Instead of my being a nay-sayer... let me provide some useful footage that just cam out on how to steer the Head of the Charles.... a race you plan to enter next year.

This is Sean Wolf who will scull the 1x in 10 days...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... rqZ2lvvlUU



http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... A0201SHg1E

Not sure what your point is, Mike.

Sean has nothing to do with how old men like you row.

Right off the bat, OTW, you row 15 seconds per 500m slower than the best young rowers.

Why?

And the same is true OTErg.

Why?

Hint:

It doesn't have anything to do with technique.

ranger

So based on your extensive experience of racing OTW you're able to say that Mike and Sean should steer the course significantly differently? You'll forgive me if I don't give your opinion on that matter a lot of credence.

[ranger]

covering 20miles in an hour at 160 bpm? Good work. That's around 230 watts.

Do you have a graph that plots watts against speed for the Kurt Kinetic?

If so, could you post it?

That would be interesting.

ranger

Here:

http://img221.imageshack.us/f/speedandpowergraph.png/

One calibration (more calibration??!) you might want to check is that it takes 13 seconds to coast down to total stop once you hit a 20mph steady speed. Loosen the clamp pressure if it stops too quickly. Tighten it if it takes too long. Run 90-100lbs of pressure in your rear tire. Keep your chain lubed. I used this method before I had a powermeter and found it very accurate when I compared it to real power as reported by my SRM system.

Thanks!

ranger

[ranger]

Evidently you must have two strokes

No.

OTW, I have oars, water, steering, wind, waves, balance, cold, other boats, etc.

Sure, it takes experience to negotiate these additional things to the limits of your ability.

ranger

[ranger]

You'll forgive me if I don't give your opinion on that matter a lot of credence.

That old men like MIke row 15 seconds per 500m slower than younger rowers, both OTW AND OTErg?

And that it doesn't have anything to do with steering?

Why?

ranger

[ranger]

To do my UT2 watts, it looks as though I need to get used to right around 21 mph on my Kurt Kinetic.

No need to push up to this right now, but riding at 21 mph on a daily basis, just as cross-training, for as long as two hours, would be another good long-term goal.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Instead of my being a nay-sayer... let me provide some useful footage that just cam out on how to steer the Head of the Charles.... a race you plan to enter next year.

This is Sean Wolf who will scull the 1x in 10 days...

http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... rqZ2lvvlUU



http://www.youtube.com/user/rowingwolf7 ... A0201SHg1E

Not sure what your point is, Mike.

The point:
trying to get others like you familiar with steering the course.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth

[mikvan52]

old men like MIke row 15 seconds per 500m slower than younger rowers, both OTW AND OTErg (.)


Why?

ranger

Why?
Because it's not true

My pace AS A LIGHTWEIGHT for 5k on the erg is 1:47.6 CURRENTLY... iow... not 2003
If younger people are 15 seconds fast per 500m than they'd have a split of 1:32.6... This yields a 5k time of 15:26..

And what are the WRs for lightweights at 5k on the erg?

So ... ranger is wrong again.

Nice try...
BTW: Being older and slower is not to be unexpected. Your taunts in this respect are falling on deaf ears.

Here are all the verified best lwt 5k results from C2:
5000 16:18.4 32 Dan Staite L M GBR 2006 PM3/PM4 verification code
5000 17:26.3 60 Brian Bailey L M GBR 2006 Witnessed at public club
5000 18:52.7 71 Roger Bangay L M GBR 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
5000 20:32.2 12 Nick Johnson L M USA 2008 Witnessed at public club
5000 20:45.6 80 Dean Smith L M USA 2007 PM3/PM4 verification code

6:18.4 is the best by a 32 yr old Dan Staite

I am 9.8 seconds per 500m slower than Dan Staite...

So ranger aka TSO Von ManBatt!
Drink up... it's closing time... but, before you pay your tab, be sure to tell juice lady why you aren't on the the list from the C2 rankings
Could the reason be that Ranger training prevents the possibility of ranger performance ?

[ranger]

Actually, to get the timing and quickness just right, low rate rowing OTErg should probably be done at about an SPI above your 2K SPI, if you can.

That is, for lightweights of any age, rowing perfectly at low rates is 14 SPI, which becomes a comfortable 13 SPI at high rates.

For heavyweights of any age, rowing perfectly at low rates is 17 SPI, which becomes a comfortable 16 SPI at high rates.

This means that, if I want to practice rowing perfectly OTErg, in my low rate rowing, I should probably try to row closer to 1:44 @ 22 spm than 1:46 @ 22 spm.

By and large, just on the basis of physical capacity, the best young rowers are 15 seconds per 500m better than the best 60s rowers, both OTW and OTErg.

A training band is five seconds per 5000m.

15 seconds/500m is three training bands.

This means that, independent of any concern with technique, just on the basis of physical capacity (strength, quickness, flexibility, aerobic capacity, durability, endurance, etc.), the best young rowers pull a 60s rower's 2K race pace (TR) at UT2--70% HRR @ 22 spm.

For the best young lightweights, 1:44 @ 22 spm (14 SPI) is UT2.

By the time someone like Mike VB is 60 years old, 1:44 will be race pace/TR, done at 34 spm (9 SPI).

Greg Brock's 60s lwt 2K American record is 1:44/6:56.

ranger

[ranger]

If I want to use my cross-trianing on the Kurt Kinetic to get used to generating the wattage necessary in order to row perfectly at low rates with a UT2 HR and 22 spm (1:44/310 watts), it looks as though I have to do about 22.5 MPH.

http://img221.imageshack.us/f/speedandpowergraph.png/

So, that would be a good long-term goal.

Yep.

Time to bring a big fan out to the garage!



For a long ride, that's pushin' it.

ranger

P.S. If someone like NavHaz wanted to do the same, he'd have to do 374 watts, or about 24 mph on the Kurt Kinetic.

[ranger]

These relationships between young rowers and 60s rowers are just the same OTW.

When he is 60, someone like Mike VB will do 2K OTW at about 2:00 pace and 28 spm (7 SPI) with a TR heart rate.

The best young OTW rowers will do 2:00 @ 22 spm (9 SPI) with a UT2 HR.

ranger