Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

That's because what makes it UT2 is whether your HR suggests your body is working at the requisite intensity.

Of course.

Who said otherwise?

For me, a HM, 1:49 @ 22 spm, with a HR of 145 bpm is UT2 and predicts a 6:16 2K.

60'r20 @ 1:50 with any HR makes the same prediction.

ranger

[whp4]

That's because what makes it UT2 is whether your HR suggests your body is working at the requisite intensity.

Of course.

Who said otherwise?

For me, a HM, 1:49 @ 22 spm, with a HR of 145 bpm is UT2 and predicts a 6:16 2K.

60'r20 @ 1:50 with any HR makes the same prediction.

ranger

You hit the trifecta, you can't do any of those!

[Carl Watts]

Yeah pretty good numbers to come up with for a guy who doesn't even know his maxHR.

Your UT2 HR average for a HM is over 2:00 pace Rich, you would find that out if you actually rowed one and posted a screen shot.

[ranger]

That's because what makes it UT2 is whether your HR suggests your body is working at the requisite intensity.

Yes.

The difficulty with meeting UT2 goals is exactly the _ease_ of the rowing, not just the speed.

When you do UT2 rowing, the exercise is all about relaxation, unconscious habit, and technical effectiveness and efficiency.

This task is just the opposite of all of the frothing excitement on the forum here (and things like the CTC and Rowpro) over pulling your guts out on pb trials at a max rate, pace, and HR over some distance rowed.

Sure, back in 2002-2003, I did 60min at 1:48, but at 28 spm (under 10 SPI), under a 2-to-1 ratio, and max drag (200+ df.), short sliding, diving at the catch and pulling up rather than pushing back, hauling with my back and arms, neglecting my legs, and therefore rowing with a hugely high HR for a 50s rower, 172 bpm, almost 90% HRR, for most of the hour.

Wretched stuff.

UT2 rowing is what learning to row well at low drag is all about.

At low drag (118 df.), rowing primarily with my legs, relaxing my arms and shoulders at the catch and in the center of the drive, only using them to finish, I now do 1:49 @ 22 spm for 60min with a UT2 HR, 145-155 bpm.

The low drag lengthens the slide, keeps the main leverage with the legs, raises the ratio and stroking power, and therefore lowers the rate, without increasing the effort, which lowers the heart rate.

At 22 spm and low drag, pulling at 12 SPI, the ratio (for me) is 4-to-1--_very_ relaxing stuff.

At low drag and 12 SPI, my drive isn't even .6 seconds long. The stroke cycle at 22 spm is 2.75 seconds long. That leaves 2.4 seconds for the recovery, four times the duration of the drive.

Effectiveness and efficiency are maximized rather than (grossly) neglected.

Different world.

ranger

[ranger]

Yeah pretty good numbers to come up with for a guy who doesn't even know his maxHR.

Your UT2 HR average for a HM is over 2:00 pace Rich, you would find that out if you actually rowed one and posted a screen shot.

No, rowing (pretty much) perfectly (12.5 SPI) at low drag (118 df.), I now row 2:00 with a HR in the 120s bpm at 16 spm.

UT2 is 145-155 bpm, the same stroking power (12.5 SPI), and 22 spm, 6 spm and therefore 75 watts more.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Fraud. You haven't "done" anything of the sort. You haven't done a continuous 60' piece in seven years, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR under 155 bpm, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR that genuinely would be UT2 if you actually did a step test or lab protocol to establish your factual max HR and threshold-associated HR.

Your max HR isn't what you think it is and your training bands aren't what you say they are.

And while I think of it, how on earth does low drag "lengthen the slide"? Assuming you're getting your legs all the way down and staying in contact with the foot stretcher, you can't move the seat any farther back than lower-limb length length will allow. That distance is dictated by your body dimensions. It has nothing to do with drag.

[Carl Watts]

No idea where you get your numbers, do you play Bingo ?

Different World alright, but the rest of us are rowing on Planet Earth.We like it here, perhaps you should visit us.

You probably need to find out your maxHR because it isn't 196 anymore, more like high 170's. 135-156 with a "middling" of 146 is my UT2 HR. So allowing for cardic drift on a 60minute or a HM a good UT2 row for me comes up with a 146 average HR at the top of the screen result.

You think your in UT2 when your more likley in the top end UT1 or even AT. Look you simply cannot do 10 strokes and turn around and say it's your HM pace and HR.

Still waiting for some screen shots with HR info by the way, but then I guess it's game over as soon as you reveal your actual performance and the funs over.

[ranger]

Fraud. You haven't "done" anything of the sort. You haven't done a continuous 60' piece in seven years, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR under 155 bpm, let alone one at 1:49 r22 with a HR that genuinely would be UT2 if you actually did a step test or lab protocol to establish your factual max HR and threshold-associated HR.

Your max HR isn't what you think it is and your training bands aren't what you say they are.

And while I think of it, how on earth does low drag "lengthen the slide"? Assuming you're getting your legs all the way down and staying in contact with the foot stretcher, you can't move the seat any farther back than lower-limb length length will allow. That distance is dictated by your body dimensions. It has nothing to do with drag.

Sorry, Nav.

It has everything to do with drag, and of course, the technique (quickness, length, leverage at the footplate, etc.) to take advantage of the low drag.

Everyone serious about rowing should be able to row for hours and hours at 22 spm and a high UT2 or low UT1 HR (e.g., 75% HRR, for me, 155 bpm).

When you do this, the pace you pull (divided by 22) gives you your natural stroking power (SPI), the most efficient and effective stroking power for you in a 2K.

When you do this, what do you get?

I get 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

That's (pretty much) rowing perfectly for a lightweight of any age.

13 SPI is rowing perfectly for a lightweight of any age.

Your problem, I suspect, is your size.

To get the ratio (4-to-1), and therefore the kind of brief work (less than .6 seconds) and extended rest (2.4 second), I get rowing at 22 spm and 118 df., you would have to lower the drag right to the bottom.

On my machine now (dang, it needs a cleaning!), that's 78 df.

But, of course, if you did this, you would then have to have the requisite quickness, precision, and skill to take advantage of such a light chain.

Not much hope in that.

As you have discovered, at the moment, your quickness, precision, and skill demand almost twice the drag to get the job done (135 df.? 145 df.?).

You're as big as an elephant but clumsy and slow as an ox.

As a result, when you row at 22 spm, you work _waaay_ too much and rest _waaay_ too little.

And you also have glaring problems getting enough easy power even when you are doing this.

You can't even get 12.5 SPI for a natural stroking power when 16 SPI is rowing perfectly for a heavyweight.

Different world.

ranger

[ranger]

Nav--

Get on a machine that gives you a 78 df. and see what your drive time is pulling 16 SPI.

.55 seconds?

ranger

[ranger]

Nav--

Of course, even if you could row perfectly at 78 df., to get where I am at, you would need to be able to work for hours and hours at a 155 HR, as I can.

Can you do this?

I keep my fitness up with a lot of cross-training.

To get where I am at, you might have to do the same.

For cross-training I like riding a bike or a stepper for a couple hours a day at my UT2 wattage.

If you want to learn to row perfectly, for you, that would be 352 watts.

My UT2 wattage (1:49 OTErg) is about 270 watts.

ranger

[snowleopard]

ranger

Let's ignore for the moment that you are totally clueless about stroke dynamics. It took you years to out iron the most basic flaws in you erg stroke and you still can't keep your head level, as we shall see at BIRC.

We all know what happens from this point forward. Rowing at low drag at 22 spm works for you up to a point. Your problem comes when you try to rate up. You simply don't have the explosive leg power to attack the drive on low drag (compare your leg musculature with EE's). So this year, as in all previous years, you will up the drag in an effort to increase drive length at higher rates and recruit as much upper body as possible -- anchor hauling.

You will of course make this change at the last minute allowing no time for accommodation which will lead to your characteristic halfway struggle.

[ranger]

Your problem comes when you try to rate up.

Nope.

Rating up is wonderful at low drag.

The ratio is so high!

Over 2-to-1 at 34 spm, my race rate.

I don't lose any stroking power at all.

I still do 12.5 SPI.

ranger

[macroth]

Everyone serious about rowing should be able to row for hours and hours at 22 spm and a high UT2 or low UT1 HR (e.g., 75% HRR, for me, 155 bpm).

When you do this, the pace you pull (divided by 22) gives you your natural stroking power (SPI), the most efficient and effective stroking power for you in a 2K.

When you do this, what do you get?

I get 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

No you don't, you pathetic, miserable liar.

You don't "get" anything because you don't row for hours and hours at 22spm. You take breaks and post shit on the Internet every few minutes.

Are you actually sharpening for BIRC like you've said several times now, or is that another lie, ie another built-in excuse for your upcoming 6:4x.x?
5 weeks left.

[ranger]

5 weeks left.

The fixation of you folks on racing, when you don't even know how to row, is a laugher.

Go figure.

Take some time off from racing, dude.

Learn something.

Then, and only then, go back to racing.

You'll be the better for it.

ranger

[ranger]

You simply don't have the explosive leg power to attack the drive on low drag

Partially true.

But I make up for it with my core and back.

I get about 100 kg.F with my legs.

Then my core and back lifts that to 125 kg.F.

All of this happens almost instantaneously (.2 seconds), before the arms and shoulders are engaged at all.



ranger