Ranger's training thread

[hjs]

are you simply choosing not to show workout results?

Not at all.

I am telling you exactly what I am doing.

ranger

Indeed telling and never showing, for most people that is the same, for you 2 worlds apart

[hjs]

Hey Nav, make sure you post Rangers BIRC 2010 2K result here as soon as it's available, I want to beat it within a few days of you posting it.

That will be easy. It will be a DNS

[ranger]

Hey.

This is a real stroke of luck:

Not only is "Wipe Our" at race rate.

So is "Good Vibrations."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc

I am now getting a _very_ relaxed and easy, 1:34 @ 36 spm (11.7 SPI).

So, at the moment, at least, that's my target race pace and rate.

8K working with that this morning, after 12K working with 1:48 @ 22 spm (12.5 SPI).

20K in all.

OTBike after breakfast.

Then OTW.

ranger

[hjs]

are you simply choosing not to show workout results?

Not at all.

I am telling you exactly what I am doing.

ranger

Indeed telling and never showing, for most people that is the same, for you 2 worlds apart


You are telling you will row 6.16............ 7 years running, you are telling you will row 7 WR in a row, starting wityh 6.28 (2009).

You showed 5/6 race average 6.55/7.00 No Wr

[ranger]

If I raise that 1:34 @ 36 spm to 40 spm, I get 1:31.

So, that's my target for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest).

For my first go at 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), I'll just shoot for race pace (1:34 @ 36 spm).

That will predict a 6:28 2K.

Then, over the next six weeks I'll slowly pump it up and grind that down to 1:31 @ 40 spm.

You gain about three seconds per 500m on these anaerobic workouts from a couple of months of hard anaerobic sharpening.

Stroke feels great.

118 df.

ranger

[ranger]

Back in 2002-2003, I went 1:36 @ 40 spm (10 SPI)

So my technical improvement has been five seconds per 500m, even though I am eight years older.

1.7 SPI

ranger

[macroth]

For my first go at 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), I'll just shoot for race pace (1:34 @ 36 spm).

That will predict a 6:28 2K.

Then, over the next six weeks I'll slowly pump it up and grind that down to 1:31 @ 40 spm.

Be still my heart, did you just lay out a plan for your next 6 weeks of training? Does this mean your first go at 8x500m will be this week? Or is this just rangerspeak, where "I will" means "I might but probably won't bother"?

[ranger]

The central focus of my sharpening and racing, I think, should be on rate.

Come what may, I think I should rate 36 spm when I race.

That is, I now need to practice a range of stroking powers, with something in the mid-range of my stroking power -(10-13 SPI) being all I need to pull 6:16.

At 36 spm, 6:16 is 11.7 SPI.

Just wanted to highlight this for those who tend to skim the thread. The process of backing off continues; earlier we had a flirtation with high drag (don't be surprised to see that one again), and now we're toying with lowering SPI. Any guesses on what else may be sacrificed?

(edit: fixed typo)

Sacrificed?

Don't know what you mean.

When you race, you pick the most efficient and effective rate and pace, given your training.

For me, that seems to be 1:34 @ 36 spm (11.7 SPI).

Compared to what I did in 2002=2003, when I was eight years younger, that "sacrifices" no rate at all.

In 2002-2003, I also rated 36 spm.

I now row at almost half the drag (118 df. vs. max/200+ df.).

That's not a "sacrifice," either.

That's an enormous advance in quickness, precision, timing, rhythmicity, leverage, etc.

My SPI now is also not a "sacrifice" relative to 2002-2003.

It's a 1.7 SPI improvement.

Delighted with all of this.

I am now rowing right at my target.

I am sharpening hard now, trying to reach it.

All of the necessary equipment is in place.

ranger

[macroth]

Back in 2002-2003...

Maybe some ranger scholars more knowledgeable than myself can help me out here. Back in 2002-2003, when ranger last broke a world record, was he already "rowing with breaks" year in, year out? I ask because I'm wondering if this method has produced anything other than a natural decline from 6:28 to 6:41.

[hjs]

It's his target pace... never to be achieved... never to become a must do by a date written in stone... no deadline... just something to pontificate about..

"13 spi" is the same.

Cureton will not perform his 2k at BIRC at 13 spi. Let me mention again, I hope the data will be recorded as has been done before: Stroke by stroke we will all see that Rich is capable of sustaining 1:41 pace at 32-34 spm but not at 25 or 26 spm.

Want to see the table again?
It's daunting what wattage needs to be maintained a such low stroke rates.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 77#p143677

It is fruitless to try to discuss this anymore here. Cureton will not elaborate on what "I do 20K of it every day" means.
I've always guessed that it is done (if done at all) in one to two minute bursts with 2 -5 minute rests.
Now that he has his HR monitor we could show us this "20K of it" and put some real metrics on what he's doing in fact..
A structured demo via screenshot of a PM4 monitor would go a long way!

We do know that he cannot do even 5k of 13 spi at any rate above an 18...
It's dumb to entertain that any 59 year old lwt can... No graybeards have such capacity. It is physiologically impossible.

Then again, 20 years from now, he'll still be saying 13 spi is my long term goal for a 2k in the 80's age group
And won't that be interesting!

BIRC will indeed be an anti-climax... an "I'm not fully trained" spectacle....
How dull.

Discussions about training and form have fallen off to nil here. It's all about TSO's insincere goals.
This is a useless thread for those who want to learn anything about how to train to be one's best at 2k on the erg.
The emotional tone of the discussion even detracts from this.
Too bad. Rich is fast and could share.. but he doesn't wish to.

In my analysis: What is really going on here is a continuation of a personal vendetta that ranger has against C2.... ever since they didn't put him on the USIRT.... no one wanted to travel w/him... wonder why? He wasn't chosen for "sand lot stick-ball"..

ranger feelings were hurt and he's been angry about it ever since. In a form of emotional self-defense he developed an obstructive and combative hermit-like attitude... Too bad that this ruined his chances to get back to WR status in over 5 years.
I think he could have done it (set a new WR)... But instead he withdrew into himself and decided to ignore anyone's council but his own... PaulS said it over and over... "You're digging a hole, ranger!" IOW: It's your own funeral.
The verdict is nearly complete on ranger's 55-59 years.... = no WR... too bad.
SPI / RWB training did not get ranger there.. FACT.

My positive suggestion is that he listen to the unemotional sides of good advice coming from people like Nav' and leadville... If he does , he'll get the 60-64 WR more easily than beating himself up with 5 more years of exclusive RWB "UT2" training.

by ranger on 10 May 2006, 9:13
why would you even try after the scorn you pored on them only a few months ago


I am still not happy with C2's refusal to just openly state a selection policy: Subject to these conditions (1,2,3,....), the best 2K trials determine selection to the team.

I think it is absurd that this doesn't happen, and I will continue to say so.

There are certain inviolate things about sports. You don't have open, verifiable trials for an atheletic team and then say that there are no objective criteria for selection. That's absurd.

At least, you don't do this and then call it the USIRT. If you are going to hire people to do a job (e.g., advertise a company), then state openly what you are doing, and call a spade a spade: The Concept2 Indoor Rowing Team (C2IRT).

There are lots of company teams out there whose composition has nothing to do with ability. If C2 is going to have a company team, then they should call it that and advertise it as that.

Wanted: Some smart looking folk that we would like to see promoting our products at the next European Indoor Rowing Championships. Please send us the following: a picture, your vita, a short clip of you rowing, your 2K time, a statement of loyalty to C2 products (over all competing products), a willingness to be briefed on what to say at EIRC and elsewhere about C2, etc. C2 will select the team from these application materials and announce the results in November.

ranger





Source: http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=675

[ranger]

To predict Mike VB's 6:50 for 2K, I will need to do about 1:39 for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest).

Recently (i.e., two years ago), Rocket Roy's best for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) has been 1:37, although he can probably no longer do that now.

ranger

[hjs]

Back in 2002-2003...

Maybe some ranger scholars more knowledgeable than myself can help me out here. Back in 2002-2003, when ranger last broke a world record, was he already "rowing with breaks" year in, year out? I ask because I'm wondering if this method has produced anything other than a natural decline from 6:28 to 6:41.

No in those days he did not use this rowing with breaks. He rowed 2 x hour per day, he was around 90 kg in those days. just for weightloss reasons and by accident discovered racing. In his firts race ever he pulled his liftime best. H never bettered that first race..............

His obsession with 6.16 can be found In Mike Caviston. Mike rowed a 6.18 40 lightweight Wr in those days and was a colleque at the same Uni as dangy. Mike got a lot of credit for this row and that pissed ranger off. At first he started to more or less "stalk" Mike to see how he trained to see if he could learn. As to be aspected he started talking bad about Mikes training
Around that moment he thought he could get to that 6.18 and below if he just got stronger. So he plan was simple, just pull hard, take a rest if needed and keep doing it untill you are stronge enough. In itself not that bad an idea, but in practice it did not work. He worked on it, forgot his weight, so trained around 85 kg, claiming to be a lightweight
In 2006 he raced his last good race a 6.29.7 but far above the 75 kg limit.

He did forget one thing ..........his age, he pb d a age 52 now is almost 60.......... That is 90% of the story of him getting slower.

[Byron Drachman]

I have just deleted a recent post that basically disparaged the U of M - at least their mascot. My apologies to the U of M people as a group. I got too carried away with the joke and didn't think about the fact that I was wielding too broad a brush - a practice that I have complained about in other posters.

With a little forethought, I could have expressed the same joke in a different way that would not have been insulting to the Wolverines as a group. Hindsight - always too late.

Bob S.

P.S. By the way - this is a voluntary apology. I had not yet received any complaints.

Hi Bob,
I didn't see anything offensive in your humor. Bumper stickers and signs in East Lansing often contain jokes about wolverines.
Byron

[Byron Drachman]

OTBike after breakfast.
Then OTW.

The water is now cold and I hope you are taking cold water safety precautions so you can do the Head of the Grand, and therefore I will have a competitor slower than me.

added later: If you decide to do another row on the Grand and you want to use the buddy system for cold water safety, let me know and I'll row with you. If you want to go faster, I'll use modern oars.

[JimR]

Wow ... today I read this posting from Ranger ...

If I raise that 1:34 @ 36 spm to 40 spm, I get 1:31.

So, that's my target for 8 x 500m (3:30 rest).

For my first go at 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), I'll just shoot for race pace (1:34 @ 36 spm).

That will predict a 6:28 2K.

Then, over the next six weeks I'll slowly pump it up and grind that down to 1:31 @ 40 spm.

You gain about three seconds per 500m on these anaerobic workouts from a couple of months of hard anaerobic sharpening.

Stroke feels great.

118 df.

ranger

Which is very similar to what ranger posted (on 9/1/10) and did not do ...

That is what I came up to Lansing for, not anything else.

My plan is to come to Lansing at least once a weekend over the next six weeks in order to do the Head of the Grand course--repeatedly.

I think doing the course in a rate pyramid would be useful--first at 22 spm, then at 23 spm, then at 24 spm, then at 25 spm, then at 26 spm, then at 27 spm, then at 28 spm, then at 29 spm, then at 30 spm.

ranger

Looking for the above information I also found this ... posted 10/7/2009 ... not that ranger telling us something will happen that doesn't is a surprise or anything ... short/log term goals and all that ...

This morning: hour erg, two-hour bike

OTW later, if the weather improves.

I sent in my entry for the Grand River Challenge in Lansing, MI, on Oct. 24th.

My first head race!

I am sure I'll make every novice mistake imaginable, but what the heck.

I'll bumble through.

I'll go to Indianapolis for a second head race on Oct. 31st.
ranger

I'm not nay-sayin' or anything here ... just sayin' ... just the facts, ma'am.

JimR