Ranger's training thread

[NavigationHazard]

You can call me all the names you want to whilst spilling your toys from the pram and wetting your diaper.
That doesn't make me any less right. Or any less more handsome, quick, coordinated, hung, and generally irresistable.

[ranger]

Nav--

"Sustain" all you want with your stroke, but in the end, you won't pull 13 SPI at even 30 spm, even though our age and weight division differ by six seconds per 500m, or at the same rate, about 2 SPI.

You pulling 13 SPI @ 30 spm for 2K, 6:24, would be like me pulling 11 SPI @ 30 spm for 2K, 6:48.

But I am going to pull 12 SPI @ 36 spm.

6:16

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

What does my stroke have to do with your force curve's (mis-)shape? That's entirely your own botched affair.

[Citroen]

Without a power meter there's no way you can compare turbo to road.

As I mentioned, I already biked with a power meter and out on the road in order to compare.

ranger

Your bike has a crude cheapo speedo based on turning a magnet past a rev counter. That is NOT a power meter.

[whp4]

Dougie writes:Without a power meter there's no way you can compare turbo to road.

As I mentioned, I already biked with a power meter and out on the road in order to compare.

ranger

What have you ever ridden with a power meter? A speedometer is not equivalent!

In a gym.

ranger

That is not out on the road. You have no valid comparison here.

[whp4]

_Lots_ of rest.

I can eat lunch between drives.

ranger

That explains your perennial weight problems! Rowing with lunch breaks

[NavigationHazard]

Here's a nice example of what prolonging force looks like (as opposed to a pipsqueak fetishizing peak force). That's 710 watts r34, or 20.9 spi. At a non-trivial 34 spm.

[mikvan52]

Here's a nice example of what prolonging force looks like (as opposed to a pipsqueak fetishizing peak force). That's 710 watts r34, or 20.9 spi. At a non-trivial 34 spm.

That broad top (on the curve) is very impressive!

[Carl Watts]

Ahh to many people wasting their time here trying to reason with the guy wearing a pair of underpants on his head now hiding the pencils up his arse...."They are in hiding like my IND_V training rows"

Why not everyone just go away and then return after BIRC 2010 for the only "Moment of Truth" your going to get ?

[ranger]

Here, in _very_ rough terms, PaulS's drive, pulling against low drag vs. my stroke, pulling against high drag, is 30% stronger, 30% shorter in duration, 30% greater in peak force, 30% lower in rate, and provides 30% more rest time to the rower in the stroke cycle as a whole.

In its force contour, my stroke is now quite a bit like Paul's.

In the stroke represented here, Paul's drive duration is .5 seconds.

http://www.ps-sport.net/pictures/Test01 ... akPaul.jpg

ranger

[ranger]

Here's a nice example of what prolonging force looks like (as opposed to a pipsqueak fetishizing peak force). That's 710 watts r34, or 20.9 spi. At a non-trivial 34 spm.

Sure, but the stroke has no resemblance to the stroke you use in a 2K (or anywhere else), so who cares?

The stroke contour that I posted is what I use in _all_ of my rowing, including my 2K racing.

ranger

[ranger]

What does my stroke have to do with your force curve's (mis-)shape? That's entirely your own botched affair.

The shape of my force curve is pretty much the shape of PaulS's in this, if his stroke were plotted against duration rather than drive length.

http://www.ps-sport.net/pictures/Test01 ... akPaul.jpg

ranger

[ranger]

You can call me all the names you want to whilst spilling your toys from the pram and wetting your diaper.
That doesn't make me any less right. Or any less more handsome, quick, coordinated, hung, and generally irresistable.

Yep.

You're a great gang-leader, _very_ popular socially.

Good luck with it.

You don't' know much about rowing, though, and aren't very good at it.

ranger

[ranger]

Here's a nice example of what prolonging force looks like (as opposed to a pipsqueak fetishizing peak force). That's 710 watts r34, or 20.9 spi. At a non-trivial 34 spm.

That broad top (on the curve) is very impressive!

It is easy to get suspension like that at 80 kg. force, as you do, when you row a 2K, or at 100 kgs. force, as Nav does, when he rows a 2K.

It's not the most effective and efficient stroke, though, as PaulS explains.

ranger

[ranger]

I would never race at high drag now, or do the majority of my training at high drag, but I think that high drag rowing still might have a function in training for rowing.

If you hold your technique together, in its length, sequencing, timing, and angles of leverage, rowing at high drag really gives all the levers a workout.

It is like lifting weights, but with exactly the muscles you need to row well at low drag.

The stress on the core in the middle of the stroke is especially noticeable.

As I might have expected, if I now row at max drag and 20 spm, I pull 1:46, just naturally, no overstroking at all.

That's 14.5 SPI.

30'r20 @ 1:46 (14.5 SPI) predicts a 6:16 2K, so it might be time to get after this predicator, too.

30'r20 @ 1:46 would be a real gut-wrencher for me, musclarly hard, but with enough of a build-up to it, I think I can now get it done.

Before I learned to use the whole slide, relax my shoulders at the catch and in the swing of my back, and send the boat away with a complete finish of my arms and pointed toes at the footplate, as I am doing now, I could only do 1:46 @ 20 spm (14.5 SPI) for 2K.

I think I can now do it for 30min.

If you hold your technique together and row at high drag and low rates, you get exactly the same force contour, in terms of shape.

The only difference is the drive time, which lengthens.

This gets some more area under the curve and increases your stroking power.

For me, the increase in stroking power from 118 df. to max drag, given the same motion, is 1.5 SPI, from 13 SPI to 14.5 SPI.

All my little soldiers are starting to line up very nicely.

Delighted with that.

ranger