Ranger's training thread

[TomR]

You could pack 10 pounds of dynamite up your ass and you're still not gonna row 6.16.

[mikvan52]

Either you spent a good deal of time eating something in excess of 7500 calories/day or else you weren't actually expending 5000 calories/day on exercise, or both.

Happy to have you come up and hang out in Door County, WI, for a couple of weeks in the summer, if you would like.

Eating starts at 4 p.m. with happy hour and tapas, salsa, chips, beer, wine, cheese, and bread.

Happy hours flows into dinner which contiinues until 8 p.m.

Yummy.

I get in four hours of exercise before everyone wakes up.

I start about 3 a.m. OTErg.

I am OTW at 5 a.m.

ranger

And then he bikes

[mikvan52]

Sorry to see flipper and goss go... they were a welcome breath of fresh air!

As for me: I'm going to do something very un-rangeresque... I'm going to race this weekend!

About 10k OTW: THE GMS CHALLENGE..
CHECK regattacentral... it won't be floating around at 21 spm in a backwoods lagoon...

Until later!

[Rockin Roland]

BTW: Doing all that biking is not going to help your sculling.

To each his own.

I disagree.

At the moment, I think that the biking is the most important thing I do.

When this cooling off occurs in my biking, I am into my third hour of exercise.

When I do my rowing OTW, I have already done three hours of exercise.

ranger

Why do you develop fitness on the land when you don't know how to row or use it on the water?

[Bob S.]

Every bloody one of you should be embarrassed with this thread. CHRONICALLY EMABARRASSED AT THAT.

This must rank as the most odious thread ever on C2. Some of you ought to know better.....really gentlemen, get a bloody grip.

What a disgrace to the erging/rowing community.

Evidently you didn't follow the equivalent thread on the UK forum a couple of years ago. This hasn't qite gotten down to that level yet - but it is showing promise. There are those who have a talent for bringing out the worst in others.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

[quote="Bob S."] skip

[ranger]

BTW: Doing all that biking is not going to help your sculling.

To each his own.

I disagree.

At the moment, I think that the biking is the most important thing I do.

When this cooling off occurs in my biking, I am into my third hour of exercise.

When I do my rowing OTW, I have already done three hours of exercise.

ranger

Why do you develop fitness on the land when you don't know how to row or use it on the water?

My primary goal for this year is 6:16 @ 60 spm OTErg.

I don't think a lot of rowing OTW is going to help me with that.

Do you?

Then again, I am not neglecting my OTW rowing.

I am doing at least 11K a day, now.

I will push that up to 20K a day before the end of the fall OTW rowing season.

I am delighted with that.

And who says I don't know how to use it OTW?

I am pulling 7 SPI.

That's just fine for a 60-year-old.

If I can get used to doing the better part of 20K OTW (and OTErg) at 26 spm, the game is won.

Then I will be able to rate 30 spm for 5K.

OTErg, even at just 12 SPI, that's 1:39, two seconds per 500m faster than WR 2K pace for me.

1:39 for 5K predicts 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

OTW, that's 1:58, eight seconds per 500m faster than the best Veteran rowers, such as Dietz and Spousta, have ever done the Head of the Charles.

1:58 for 5K predicts at least 1:50 for 1K, _waaay_ better than any Veteran rowers have ever done 1K.

ranger

[ranger]

You could pack 10 pounds of dynamite up your ass and you're still not gonna row 6.16.

,

Nothing wrong with having ambitious goals.

It keeps me doing that 90min or 13 SPI every morning, rowing perfectly.

Sure, 6:16 would be _very_ fast.

This year, anything better than 6:42 will be a new 60s lwt WR.

And so forth.

Anything better than 6:38 at BIRC will get me the 55s lwt WR, too.

Anything better than 6:28 will get me a pb.

Anthing better than 6:24, will get me _both_ the 50s lwt WR (by implication) and the 60s hwt WR.

Anything better than 6:18 will get me _both_ the 40s lwt WR (by implication) and the 55s hwt WR.

So, as I am sharpening this year, training myself to be the best I can be for 2K, there are many milestones that I can pass along the way.

ranger

[ranger]

As for me: I'm going to do something very un-rangeresque... I'm going to race this weekend!

About 10k OTW: THE GMS CHALLENGE..
CHECK regattacentral... it won't be floating around at 21 spm in a backwoods lagoon...

Who would row 10K at 21 spm?

Much more likely you than me.

When I am fully trained up for it, I would rate at least 26 spm.

BTW, I am delighted to have the Huron River a few steps from my house.

I get there with my Fluid in about 30 seconds.

This is _spectacularly_ convenient, and not a bad row, either, especially now.

All of the summer vegetation is dying off.

The course I row is getting wider--and the water clearer.

In the morning, I am the only one there, no traffic at all.

The river runs west to east by my house, so each morning, I row into the blaze of the rising sun.

Great stuff.

BTW, it looks as though the handicap for early 60s rowers in the GMS is right around 7.5 seconds per 500m.

If you row just as well as the best young rowers in the race, as I assume you do, why do they beat you by 7.5 seconds per 500m?

My guess is that it is isn't anything that has to do with rowing.

Do you agree?

The 60s 2K WRs OTErg are 12 seconds per 500m slower than the Open WRs.

This gap doesn't have much to do with rowing either.

ranger

[ausrwr]

My primary goal for this year is 6:16 @ 60 spm OTErg. Rating 60 being the only way you'll pull 6:16

I don't think a lot of rowing OTW is going to help me with that. Well, yes it will. What happened to, 'the fastest ergers are the fastest OTW', or has that changed since last you postulated?

Do you?

Then again, I am not neglecting my OTW rowing. That may be the case, you're not neglecting talking about it.

I am doing at least 11K a day, now. I thought it was 15...

I will push that up to 20K a day before the end of the fall OTW rowing season. No, you will say you will

I am delighted with that. You're obviously not delighted enough to prove it.

And who says I don't know how to use it OTW? who says you do? Oh, your coach...

I am pulling 7 SPI. and you measure this how?

That's just fine for a 60-year-old. Well, wait a few months then

If I can get used to doing the better part of 20K OTW (and OTErg) at 26 spm, the game is won. No, if you can do it well, the game is won. If you just batter up and down the slide like you do on the keyboard, you're stuffed.

Then I will be able to rate 30 spm for 5K. No, you can rate 30 for 5k when you can rate 30 for 5k

OTErg, even at just 12 SPI, that's 1:39, two seconds per 500m faster than WR 2K pace for me. No, WR pace for you is 1:39.5, Roy's SOFT WR that you haven't been able to break and won't.

1:39 for 5K predicts 1:34/6:16 for 2K. Well, it may, but you can't do either

OTW, that's 1:58, eight seconds per 500m faster than the best Veteran rowers, such as Dietz and Spousta, have ever done the Head of the Charles. Again, you can't do this. You're not that good.

1:58 for 5K predicts at least 1:50 for 1K, _waaay_ better than any Veteran rowers have ever done 1K. More bullshit

ranger

The italics are mine. The stupidity is all Ranger's.

[ranger]

Event Record Age Name Wt. Gender Country Season Verification*
10000 31:36.5 35 Jean-Christophe Rolland H M FRA 2000 Historical record*
10000 32:00.7 20 Christopher Anderson H M USA 2004 Historical record*
10000 32:15.7 31 Augusto Farfan L M PER 2005 Historical record*
10000 32:49.2 26 Suranga Lakamarachchi L M LKA 2005 Historical record*
10000 32:59.9 18 Sam Burns H M USA 2001 Historical record*
10000 33:03.9 40 Nik Fleming H M GBR 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
10000 33:31.0 50 Tore Foss H M NOR 2003 Historical record*
10000 33:43.1 14 Vince Argall L M USA 2003 Historical record*
10000 34:16.2 52 Rod Freed L M USA 2002 Historical record*
10000 34:28.4 41 Jari Lampi L M FIN 2003 Historical record*
10000 35:20.8 62 TJ Oesterling H M USA 2011 PM3/PM4 verification code
10000 35:54.7 61 Brian Bailey L M GBR 2007 PM3/PM4 verification code

The 60s lwt WR for 10K OTErg is 3:40 or so slower than the Open lwt WR.

11 seconds per 500m.

1:48 vs. 1:37.

What if that could be cut to 5 seconds per 500m?

If I can rate 27 spm for 10K this year, and I think I can, that's what I'll do.

ranger

[ranger]

At the _extremely_ low drag I am rowing at now (118 df.), the wheel is really spinning freely, and the chain offers _very_ little resistance.

So I am rewarded more and more for quicker and quicker catches, quicker and quicker finishes and recoveries (so that I am prepared for quicker and quicker catches), and lower and lower rates (that is, slower and slower descents down the slide).

When I get the rhythm right, I get a massively strong stroke with just normal levels of effort.

My stroke is now perfect!

Just naturally.

13 SPI

In my low rate rowing, I now seem to like 23 spm, and as I go along and tune into the rhythm of that freely spinning wheel more and more precisely, the pace comes down to 1:45.

At this point, I am getting 135 kgF of peak force.

I am pulling all the way to the top of the graph on the PM4.

Amazing.

I am just a little geezer.



On the force curve, you can clearly see the contributions of my three levers: legs, core/back, arms.

I get about 110 kg.F of peak force with my legs.

Then my back lifts the peak force to 135 kgF.

Then force declines and falls away as my back finishes and I complete the drive with my arms.

When I rowed at high drag, I only got about 90 kgF of peak force and 10 SPI when I was stroking naturally.

The difference is 3 SPI!

When I row at high drag, the whole top part of this force curve (above 90 kgF) is gone.

The top of the force curve flattens out into a table and the shape of the curve as a whole squares up into a trapezoid.

At high drag, diving at the catch and pulling simultaneously with all of my levers, my three levers cannot make their own independent contributions, as they can when the levers are precisely sequenced and bent against a low drag that rewards speed and exact timing rather than strength.

ranger

[ranger]

Most 60s lwts pull 9 SPI when they stroke naturally.

That's 1:59 at 23 spm, 14 (!!!!) seconds per 500m slower at the same rate.

Rowing at 118 df., my stroke is now 4/9 or 45% stronger than that.

I am rowing perfectly for a lightweight of any age.

Most 60s lwts have a stroke that is just half-assed, close to 50% weaker.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, NavHaz continues to claim that I am unprepared at the catch, cutting the slide, and pulling too soon with my back and arms.

Impossible.

If I were unprepared at the catch and cutting the slide, I couldn't row perfectly (13 SPI) at such a low drag (118 df.) and get 110 kgs. peak force with my legs.

If I were pulling too soon with my back, my back couldn't lift the peak force of my stroke 25 kgF after the strongest part of my leg drive is done.

And if I were pulling too soon with my arms, my force curve wouldn't show such a long and straight decline to the baseline.

It would drop off precipitously after my legs and back finished.

ranger

[ranger]

1:45 @ 23 spm is a second per 500m faster than the 60s lwt hammer at WIRC 2010 pulled for 2K, all out, with a max HR and a free rate.



2010 C.R.A.S.H.-B. Sprints World Indoor Rowing Championships

Event: Lightweight Veteran Men (Age 60-64)


1 Lakin Robert Wichita Rowing Association 07:03.6 61
2 Brock Gregory Unaffiliated 07:06.0 62
3 Petersen Leif Kalundborg 07:08.5 64
4 Francis Peter Rocky Mountain Rowing Club 07:09.3 61
5 Lawson Jerry Unaffiliated 07:14.3 62
6 Bayko Rick Forum Flyers 07:21.1 62
7 White Michael Mt. Baker Rowing 07:39.3 64


ranger