The Two Types of Training

[mikvan52]

Rumor has it that ranger has already signed up his new boat, Windupnover, for this regatta:

Michigan Club Invitational Argo Pond, Ann Arbor, MI. Master - Open - Junior - Novice. c: Rachel Cooper , PO Box 3128 Ann Arbor, MI 48106 , ph: 734-660-8476 , email: rachel.a.cooper@gmail.com Host: Ann Arbor Rowing Club. Entry Deadline: July 17, 2010.
Web: http://www.a2crew.com

[hjs]

His first race ever is still his 2k pb................. kind of funny

No, given my time (6:27.5) and the fact that I can make weight and row well, this is not funny at all, but absolutely normal (and a tribute to my training).

ranger

You have never rowed a 2k below 75 kg so you can,t make weight, you prove that every season, it takes you 3/4 races to get to 1 ok ish race, although slower every year.

So getting slower is a tribute to your training!, you might be on to something

[whp4]

There are still 9 1/2 days left in the ranking season.

This is plenty of time to add 9 more events to the rankings.

He's got about 110,000 meters of rowing at PB speed to do over that time period. FM, HM, 60, 30, 10k, 6k, 5k -- he promised IND_V PBs for all by the end of the month.

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

There are still 9 1/2 days left in the ranking season.

This is plenty of time to add 9 more events to the rankings.

Agreed.

Classes are now over.

Ah....

Vacation.

I don't go back to teaching until September 10th.

Wow.

That's almost five months.



Now, I can do my erging and biking in the morning before dawn and then float around on the river in my new 1x all day long (like Mike VB).

Having nothing to do is almost working as little as Rocket Roy or Dennis Hastings!



Maybe I'll become a boathouse bum.

You know, a guy who hangs around the boathouse all day long, tinkering with rigging and the like, because they don't have anything else to do?

ranger

[ranger]

Rumor has it that ranger has already signed up his new boat, Windupnover, for this regatta:

Michigan Club Invitational Argo Pond, Ann Arbor, MI. Master - Open - Junior - Novice. c: Rachel Cooper , PO Box 3128 Ann Arbor, MI 48106 , ph: 734-660-8476 , email: rachel.a.cooper@gmail.com Host: Ann Arbor Rowing Club. Entry Deadline: July 17, 2010.
Web: http://www.a2crew.com

I haven't signed up yet, but you're right, I might.

Are you coming out to Ann Arbor for this _grrrreeeeeeaaaaaaatttttt_ event?

ranger

[ranger]

Actually, if I get even a smidge of an improvement (e.g., one second per 500m) on _any_ of my distance trials, things will start to get _very_ exciting.

My distance pbs were set when I pulled 6:28 for 2K.

6:24 is both the 50s lwt WR and the 60s hwt WR.

Rows of this sort would predict 6:24:

FM 1:50
HM 1:47
60min 1:46
10K 1:45
30min 1:44
6K 1:43
5K 1:42

ranger

[Carl Watts]

Carl--

For each SPI you can get in your stroke by improving your effectiveness without increasing your effort, you'll get three seconds per 500m in pace.

For a big heavyweight, at the moment, in your low rate rowing, such as 10K @ 23 spm, you are five SPI, and therefore fifteen seconds per 500m, from rowing well.

ranger

I have to be honest, I prefer taking my training advice from a friend who used to be right up there as an OTW rower and who still kicks my ass on the Erg. I understand to even be considered for an OTW crew, 9000m in 30minutes was the minimum expected on the Erg.

The focus has been on DPS and lowering the rating while maintaining the same pace. What I should be doing is 20-21 SPM or less for the 10K at 1:54 pace. The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke to 23 your pace increases to closer to my 1:50 target. Getting there is just time spent on training and improving my cardio as the power is there, just not he ability for the heart to sustain it for long enough periods.

To vary the training recently I have also been doing distance rows where I keep the HR at a allowable maximum of 150 and see what the maximum pace I can acheive at this HR. Makes it a like another game on the PM3.

You seem very focused on rating. Yes I can rate at 32 SPM but only for the 500M and the resulting time is 1:34, actually about 1 second quicker than this as this was an online row that started with a "ROW" signal rather than a set piece that the clock starts as soon as you pull the handle.

By the way you now only have 8 days left to post a verified distance row.

[jliddil]

I have to be honest, I prefer taking my training advice from a friend who used to be right up there as an OTW rower and who still kicks my ass on the Erg.

Indeed.

The focus has been on DPS and lowering the rating while maintaining the same pace. What I should be doing is 20-21 SPM or less for the 10K at 1:54 pace. The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke to 23 your pace increases to closer to my 1:50 target. Getting there is just time spent on training and improving my cardio as the power is there, just not he ability for the heart to sustain it for long enough periods.

Sort of what I've been doing. The rowpro plan tends to have this kind of focus. And when I row online against people that kill me I tend to try to keep my spm down to 20-22 and keep a sub 2:00 pace. I usually max out ability but haven't blown up yet during 10Ks.

[Carl Watts]

I have to be honest, I prefer taking my training advice from a friend who used to be right up there as an OTW rower and who still kicks my ass on the Erg.

Indeed.

The focus has been on DPS and lowering the rating while maintaining the same pace. What I should be doing is 20-21 SPM or less for the 10K at 1:54 pace. The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke to 23 your pace increases to closer to my 1:50 target. Getting there is just time spent on training and improving my cardio as the power is there, just not he ability for the heart to sustain it for long enough periods.

Sort of what I've been doing. The rowpro plan tends to have this kind of focus. And when I row online against people that kill me I tend to try to keep my spm down to 20-22 and keep a sub 2:00 pace. I usually max out ability but haven't blown up yet during 10Ks.

If you want to use something to show you what rating/pace you should be training at then use the following:-

http://www.biorow.com/Downloads.htm

download the Excel speadsheet and you can change your SPM for the 2K at the top left.

[johnlvs2run]

The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke ... your pace increases

A theorical idea, that does not work in practice.

It does not work, because it cannot work.

It is impossible to go at 100% effort and then increase that by 15%, much less by another 100%.

It would be easier to just start at 40 spm, and then gradually increase the distance per stroke.
This latter way would be much more productive, as then you would not need to raise the rating at all.

I can rate at 32 SPM but only for the 500M

There is a good example of this.

The simple fact is that practicing low ratings with intensity, locks your intensity to low ratings.

[johnlvs2run]

The simple fact is that practicing low ratings with intensity, locks your intensity to low ratings.

MikeB has even given examples of this, from his training.

[mikvan52]

The focus has been on DPS and lowering the rating while maintaining the same pace. What I should be doing is 20-21 SPM or less for the 10K at 1:54 pace. The idea is that when you then rate back up with the same power per stroke to 23 your pace increases to closer to my 1:50 target. Getting there is just time spent on training and improving my cardio as the power is there, just not he ability for the heart to sustain it for long enough periods.

To vary the training recently I have also been doing distance rows where I keep the HR at a allowable maximum of 150 and see what the maximum pace I can acheive at this HR. Makes it a like another game on the PM3.

My experience with the erg has given me the perspective to realize that a great score can be produced in very many ways.

As you are "a child" as compared with the likes of me and many other vocal people here on this thread, you have more options with varying rate. Some of us who are 15 -20 years older than you should be careful to temper our advice to fit the cardio-vascular age of the athletes to whom we counsel.

VO2 max is a critical element that we've failed to adequately discuss here.

I have just finished reviewing data for the 50's age groups for the last 15 years at CRASH-B's. Everyone among the winners circle either slows down or stops rowing... This cannot be blamed on their training.... It's VO2 max...

Low rate rowing develops VO2 max to the highest extent for everyone's age. Speedwork gets the most out of it.
Intense sharpening diminishes VO2 max.... and the cycle goes on and on.
It sounds like you are on track with great training, Carl.

Banter obscures the truth.
Come to this thread for banter, not truth.
Many "truth machines" lay dormant while traps are left wide open.

[Nosmo]

Low rate rowing develops VO2 max to the highest extent for everyone's age.

Is this really true? Isn't it lower power not rating that is important. I.e. optimal VO2 max training is at something like 70% or VO2 max? One can train at high rating and low power and still develop VO2 max (but one would not be getting the
muscular strength one gets at lower ratings).

Other wise I agree.

[bloomp]

Low rate rowing develops VO2 max to the highest extent for everyone's age.

Is this really true? Isn't it lower power not rating that is important. I.e. optimal VO2 max training is at something like 70% or VO2 max? One can train at high rating and low power and still develop VO2 max (but one would not be getting the
muscular strength one gets at lower ratings).

Other wise I agree.

At a certain point, VO2 max stops increasing. It's really easy to get to your peak value by doing intervals - but you stop improving even though other physiological factors can keep changing. You have to have the longer distance work at (as you said) the proper, lower intensity. Why not build some strength while improving efficiency (cellular/tissue) and upping your lactate threshold?

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/timecors.htm