Sprints and Stuff- training/questions 1k and below

[hjs]

If you take two people of equal aerobic fitness and compare them on the rower, the stronger of the two would be faster. Strength does help with the rowing stroke. If you can't pull in the 1:30s without killing yourself, no amount of aerobic fitness will get you a low 6 2k.

True, but fast rowers, 2k and above are not that strong, but super fit. If you can pull 15 seconds below your 2k av. You are strong enough. If the 1k and below are your thing, strenght becomes a lot more important.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

If you take two people of equal aerobic fitness and compare them on the rower, the stronger of the two would be faster. Strength does help with the rowing stroke. If you can't pull in the 1:30s without killing yourself, no amount of aerobic fitness will get you a low 6 2k.

That's a big "if," though. You don't need to lift to be fast on the erg/water and in fact you may gain less fitness through lifting and rowing than just through rowing. That's the issue.

You can't just say, "take two people of equal aerobic fitness but one who is stronger" because it doesn't work that way.

[G-dub]

lets not get in the weeds. The question I was asking was: Can weight lifting (the kind that most mimics the rowing stroke) help one increase their power per stroke and if so what is the best method to do that - low rep strength work, high rep work, both or something else like explosive power oriented work. For clarification, I am always looking at the 2K, so this isn't about making my 100m time better. BUT, being able to apply power would seem to me to be transferable. Granted, there is an aerobic (an maybe anaerobic) component as in being able to hold that power for the distance.

[hjs]

lets not get in the weeds. The question I was asking was: Can weight lifting (the kind that most mimics the rowing stroke) help one increase their power per stroke and if so what is the best method to do that - low rep strength work, high rep work, both or something else like explosive power oriented work. For clarification, I am always looking at the 2K, so this isn't about making my 100m time better. BUT, being able to apply power would seem to me to be transferable. Granted, there is an aerobic (an maybe anaerobic) component as in being able to hold that power for the distance.

The answer is, what training do the very best? Rowing has very little to do with being explosive. Its getting those slow fibers working the best they can. Volume at low rate. Boring, boring, boring, but it works.

I myself also try to get stronger, which I find not easy to become at my age, but it certainly does not help my 2k and above. Which is not a problem for me. Strenghtwork also hinders my aerobic training.

[kini62]

lets not get in the weeds. The question I was asking was: Can weight lifting (the kind that most mimics the rowing stroke) help one increase their power per stroke and if so what is the best method to do that - low rep strength work, high rep work, both or something else like explosive power oriented work. For clarification, I am always looking at the 2K, so this isn't about making my 100m time better. BUT, being able to apply power would seem to me to be transferable. Granted, there is an aerobic (an maybe anaerobic) component as in being able to hold that power for the distance.

Here ya go-

http://versaclimber.com/versarower/

Seems interesting, expensive though.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Here ya go-

http://versaclimber.com/versarower/

Seems interesting, expensive though.

Why anyone would buy that is beyond me.

As for what sort of strength regimen is best, I think it's a combination of some explosive power (e.g. squats and deadlifts) and muscular endurance. You don't need to worry about doing very low rep ranges, probably somewhere in the 8-12 rep range. I would say there is definitely an element of explosiveness in rowing, though it's not a dominant factor in your performance. I think it's been said before, but just like you can find rowers who lift a lot and are very fast, you can also find rowers who don't lift and are equally fast (e.g. the Sinkovic brothers vs the NZL pair of Murray/Bond). Ultimately different training approaches work for different people. If you enjoy lifting and think it will make a difference in your performance, then do it! None of us here are competing to make the Olympics, so the worst that can happen is the lifting doesn't make you much faster and you stop doing it and go on with life. Don't be afraid to experiment.

[G-dub]

You bet Armondo. Us old farts need to lift (or do resistance work) regardless of what the impact is on 2K PB. The way I'm thinking about it is:
1. Core oriented work will be beneficial in general and also provide something to push against.
2. Weight training that increases range of motion and flexibility, such as deep squats / overhead squats, KB Bell swings, should be beneficial to lengthening stroke and injury prevention (assuming you don't get injured doing them!).
3. Increasing strength overall with some heavy work (for me deadlifts) to encourage testosterone and GH production.
4. Weight training that is the opposite of rowing such as shoulder and bench presses.

[Dickie]

lets not get in the weeds. The question I was asking was: Can weight lifting (the kind that most mimics the rowing stroke) help one increase their power per stroke and if so what is the best method to do that - low rep strength work, high rep work, both or something else like explosive power oriented work. For clarification, I am always looking at the 2K, so this isn't about making my 100m time better. BUT, being able to apply power would seem to me to be transferable. Granted, there is an aerobic (an maybe anaerobic) component as in being able to hold that power for the distance.

I am 60 years old now, but until i was about 42 or 3 all i did was weightlifting (not bodybuilding), mostly power-lifting some Olympic lifting and the associated assistance exercises. Except for a few warmup sets, I never did more than 10 reps per set and reps always declined as the weight increased. At 43, when my joints could no longer handle the strain, I took up erging. I feel that my weight training has helped in the 100 and 1 minute but not so much for the 500 and beyond. The biggest plus from the weightlifting is that my back can take the strain on an explosive start.

I am not a physiologist, but i fail to see how weight lifting where you are doing 10 or even 20 reps per set can help you in a 2000 meter race where you would be doing 200+ strokes. I know it has not helped me. I did also row 1 year on a College Crew in 1974/5 (WPI) and I was the strongest one on our crew, but could not keep up on the erg. (At that time there was no C2, we used a Gamut Ergometer)

Fred Dickie 60 Yrs old 5'9" 227 lbs
Last season after I turned 60
100 - 16.1 1 Minute 341m 1000 - 3:19.7 2000 - 6:59.5 at CRASH-B 1/2 marathon 1:25:07.9

[Shawn Baker]

[Papy]

Did throw in a 100m attempt after a 10k UT1 this afternoon - new PB by 0.8 secs, from 18.4 to 17.6.

Damper 8 - DF 150 - 37 Spm - 1'28.0

[left coaster]

I bet if you can get the SR up to 45 you'll be a full second faster

[Shawn Baker]

Finished 2 week zero carb experiment- bodyweight 244 down to 232, no loss on stroke power index over 1 minute- likely about 8lbs of water and 3 lbs of fat, maybe 1 lb of muscle I'd guess- look to be 1-2% leaner- generally was 12-18 eggs and 1.5-2lbs meat per day somewhere around 3k cals I'd say- now to resume more normal LCHF diet- added some heavy cream, vegetables and some berries today

Workout- unfortunately last week I was very low on time and was nursing both quad strain and low back strain- nearly better but still need to respect them

1k wu row

1 min at 1:28.2 22spm- not quite what I want-tough target, but will keep plugging away some more

Step ups to low box (12") to 245lbs 5 reps each leg x 5 sets- nice and easy- doing some single leg stuff to give back a break

176lb kb swing x 10/10 hanging leg raises x 10 rounds (100 reps each)

Hopefully can get after it harder next week!

[aussieluke]

lets not get in the weeds. The question I was asking was: Can weight lifting (the kind that most mimics the rowing stroke) help one increase their power per stroke and if so what is the best method to do that - low rep strength work, high rep work, both or something else like explosive power oriented work. For clarification, I am always looking at the 2K, so this isn't about making my 100m time better. BUT, being able to apply power would seem to me to be transferable. Granted, there is an aerobic (an maybe anaerobic) component as in being able to hold that power for the distance.

Just throwing this in here. Sam Loch, who just scored the new 1000m WR is all about strength, in particular the deadlift. Big, heavy deadlifts.

Of course he was a competitive Olympic rower for years so spent a lot of time rowing a lot of meters. But now his goals are indoor rowing and not OTW so weight doesn't matter. He trains strength first and erging second.

There is a great interview with him on the LEO fitness podcast that is worth looking up if you're interested.

[Shawn Baker]

1k wu row

1 min- 1:29.2@ 21 spm - quad getting better but need to bring strength back up a bit once I can go full out on leg training

Jump rope x 100

Plyo push-ups (12" box) 3 reps/ 20 lb med ball overhead to ground slams x 3---- 10 rounds

Cambered bar bench press to 245lbs

176lb KB swings x 20 reps

Slowly bringing up the intensity

Riwer is starting to annoy me- need to hit target so I can move on!

[Shawn Baker]

1k wu

1min this time 1:27.4 at 22spm- a little better than last 2 days but still not quite there- have been really emphasizing long powerful stroke but it's just not enough- so today also tried to really focus on a fast and explosive drive phase which in addition to being long- seems to help- also as quadriceps and back start to feel better hopefully can't squeeze out just a bit more power

High box squats 315lbs 10 sets of 10- easy and staying light to "rehab" a bit

Finished with 10sets of 2 reps with snatch grip high pulls off low blocks

Nothing special but still decent

Diet is now around 50gm of carbohydrate daily (added back veg and some berries, as well as full fat dairy- still lots of eggs and some meat)- weight back up about 3 lbs in 2 days (water I'm sure)