Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

ranger,

You do not understand the term full pressure...that's all.

Really?

To me, it just means taking good strokes, which is what I always try to do, OTErg or OTW.

OTW, at 7.5 SPI, 21 spm is 2:10.

OTW, at 7 SPI, 21 spm is 2:14.

OTErg, at 13SPI, 21 spm is 1:48.

OTErg, at 12 SPI, 21 spm is 1:52.

Numbers in and around these are "full pressure" for me.

ranger

[ranger]

If you row one minute at full pressure you should be done.

Sure, if it's 40 spm, but not if it's 20 spm.

I assume that a 30'r20 trial is rowing at full pressure.

Are you saying that it's not?

For instance, if I am going to pull 6:16 for 2K OTErg, I need to do 30'r20 at 1:46.

That's 14.5 SPI.

So, are you saying that, OTErg, 14.5 SPI for a 60-year-old lightweight is not fulll pressure?

If so, I think that's ridiculous.

OTErg, to do 14.5 SPI at 118 df., I have to get at least 135 kgF of peak force on my force curve.

My force curve has to go right to the top of the graph on the PM4.

Back in 2006, I did 2K, 1:46 @ 20 spm.

So that's a heck of a lot longer than one minute.

That's 7:04.

Honestly, though, I don't think that 14.5 SPI is "full pressure" for me.

For me, 14.5 SPI is severely overstroking, that is, quite a bit above "full pressure."

I think that 13 SPI is full pressure.

And sure, I can do 13 SPI at low rates for a heck of lot longer than 7 minutes.

At 21 spm, the goal is to do it for 2.5 hours.

I will be doing all of my background rowing this year, as I am sharpening, 1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI).

"Full pressure."

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

In the OTW world, "full pressure" means 100% of the grunt you're capable of applying to the oar(s).

See the Idiot's Guide To Rowing at http://www.bgsbc.co.uk/igtr.shtml

You want to row 25-minute base-building pieces in training, strive to do them at 75% or so of full pressure and at low ratings so you can hold good technique. See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/fashi ... ref=rowing for Michelle Guerrette referencing Charlie Butt on this.

No one, even Redgrave, could, can, or ever will row "full pressure" for an entire 2k OTW race. OTE, "full pressure" is pretty much the same thing. Full pressure for me for 1' r20 is probably 1:29-1:30 pace. Then the wheels fall off and I collapse off the erg because I can't sit up or stand up. The idea that anyone -- ANYONE -- can keep up "full pressure" for 30' r20 is ludicrous.

[hjs]

If you row one minute at full pressure you should be done.

Sure, if it's 40 spm, but not if it's 20 spm.

I assume that a 30'r20 trial is rowing at full pressure.

Are you saying that it's not?

ranger

Far from. 30/20 is at at least 15 second above max pressure, proberbly more. A 30/20 session has nothing to do with full pressure, it is an enduance piece.

For some you reason you sometimes surprice me and it's always when you show that even the most simple things are beyond you

I now for sure you are just fooling around, even you know that you are just talking Full pressure is full pressure, that is always an alactic anaerobe matter. Even a 100 meter can,t be done 100% bat full pressure, after 70/80 meters yoo start to fade.

[ranger]

In the OTW world, "full pressure" means 100% of the grunt you're capable of applying to the oar(s).

See the Idiot's Guide To Rowing at http://www.bgsbc.co.uk/igtr.shtml

You want to row 25-minute base-building pieces in training, strive to do them at 75% or so of full pressure and at low ratings so you can hold good technique. See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/fashi ... ref=rowing for Michelle Guerrette referencing Charlie Butt on this.

No one, even Redgrave, could, can, or ever will row "full pressure" for an entire 2k OTW race. OTE, "full pressure" is pretty much the same thing. Full pressure for me for 1' r20 is probably 1:29-1:30 pace. Then the wheels fall off and I collapse off the erg because I can't sit up or stand up. The idea that anyone -- ANYONE -- can keep up "full pressure" for 30' r20 is ludicrous.

O.K., I understand now, but I am not impressed.

Defined this way, "full pressure" is useless.

There is no reason to do it--ever.

For me, that's 20 SPI.

So who cares?

What is a wifflepoof?

Who cares?

It's nothing.

ranger

[ranger]

What matters is rowing well.

OTErg, rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI.

OTErg, rowing well for heavyweights is 16 SPI.

For me, rowing well OTW is 7.0-7.5 SPI.

When I am doing the Head of the Grand course at low rates, I will try to row well.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, as I lose 15 pounds over the next month, by the middle of October, I will be two seconds per 500m faster OTW, just because I will be lighter.

Nice!

ranger

[ranger]

Solid 90min OTBike this morning at 21.6 MPH, after 15K of erging.

I am waiting to go out OTW until the sun warms it up a bit.

Only 45 degrees F. here in Ann Arbor at them moment.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

No, your understanding is useless. As others have tried to tell you, repeatedly, "spi" is basically meaningless OTW as an index of "rowing well." It's mainly because ambient conditions -- wind, water, temperature -- affect grossly the rower input/boat speed relationship.*

2:06 pace r30 in 80F flat, still water and a dead calm is one thing; 2:06 pace r30 in (say) the Passaic River in 60F water with a 20mph headwind and 2' of chop and a 5-knot incoming tide is something else again. Whether you express boat speed in watts or in min:sec:00/500m, neither it nor the effort necessary to achieve it are comparable in the real world without taking conditions into account.

It's for precisely this reason that competitive rowers and their coaches use terms like "full pressure" and "3/4 pressure" and "half pressure" and "paddle." They're rough and ready ways of trying to hold rower input constant from one session to another without trying to equalize boat speed for conditions.

* There are other reasons, actually, chief among them duration. And then there's the whole business of multiple-rower boats, in which the additional rower input does NOT produce an additive increase in boat speed.....

[ranger]

You want to row 25-minute base-building pieces in training, strive to do them at 75% or so of full pressure and at low ratings so you can hold good technique.

Sure, _I_ do this.

But this has nothing to do with anything that you attempt.

25'r20 @ 1:36?



Gimme a break.

You miss it by 8-10 seconds per 500m.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Muppet. a) Guerette and Charlie Butt are referring to OTW pieces. b) pace (boat speed) OTW is not simply a function of rower input. It's affected by conditions. Even at constant rating, 75% of full pressure can mean drastically different paces depending on wind, current, waves and water temperature.

EDIT: OTE you do NOT do continuous 25' pieces r20 at 1:45 (75% of the watts implied by 20 spi r20, which is probably an exaggeration of your capacities). I'd be surprised if you can do 3' at that pace/rating.

[whp4]

What I actually wrote is that you will NOT be able to do 3 x the HOTG course "at full pressure"/paddle back, regardless of rating. If you do it once at full pressure you should barely be able to row another stroke. If you can continue to row, you didn't do it at full pressure.

Don't you do any full pressure rowing on the erg at 21-25 spm?

If you row at full pressure for 3.8K you are done?

Why?

The recommendation is that you train yourself to do 20K at full pressure when you are only rating 21-25 spm.

At 21 spm, your HR should be UT2.

At 25 spm, your HR should be middlin' UT1.

3.8K is an AT race.

That's 26-28 spm, perhaps even 30 spm, if you can hack it.

ranger

If you row one minute at full pressure you should be done. If not you simply don,t use full pressure. Which indeed you never do, take a few strokes ....... stop.............type some nonsens is all you do.

But he does spew nonsense at full pressure in his postings

[chgoss]

BTW, as I lose 15 pounds over the next month, by the middle of October,

you think you can loose 15lbs in 5 weeks (9/10 --> 10/15)?
really?

[mikvan52]

Sure, if .... but not if ....



For instance, if I ....





If so, I think ..........


Back in 2006, I did ...



I think .....

And sure, I can ...........



I will be ....

ranger

the past... and "ifs" about the future...

I sincerely doubt we'll see any times for your Grand "full pressure" efforts in coming weeks..
They WILL be slow. I don't think this; I KNOW it.

btw 21-25 spm is not a 1x head race rate ACCORDING TO YOU.

No one in here but us chickens... and we've been roosting for a long time..

[DUThomas]

BTW, as I lose 15 pounds over the next month

Yum!