The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

On the erg, at least, the question for little lightweights like me (and Mike Van Beuren) is how to get efficient enough to rate 32 spm under your anaerobic threshold without sacrificing your technique (i.e., your effectiveness, your stroking power).

I seem to be approaching this accomplishment.

I _used_ to rate 32 spm under my anaerobic threshold, but I rowed like shit.

In fact, I didn't know how to row at all.

So I didn't have any technique to "preserve."

No timing, no sequencing, no leveraging, no quickness, no length, no posture, no flexibility, etc.

Not now.

I now know how to row.

ranger

[jliddil]

If your reference to the AARP was just a snide comment on my age, accomplishments, and goals, you might consider this:

Let me rephrase as I apologize for the reference you find objectionable. You accomplishments and goals are something that all older people should admire and strive for. Belonging to an organization has no relevance to the subject at hand which is training, regardless of age or sex or abilities

[Carl Watts]

I _used_ to rate 32 spm under my anaerobic threshold, but I rowed like shit.

In fact, I didn't know how to row at all.

So I didn't have any technique to "preserve."

No timing, no sequencing, no leveraging, no quickness, no length, no posture, no flexibility, etc.

Not now.

I now know how to row.

ranger

I agree, never have I seen so many lines of truth in one of your posts. Watched your 2003 video and you couldn't row for shit. You had no leg drive at all and you basically thrashed away at the Erg and only did what you did due to your peak level of aerobic fitness at the time, which was very impressive. Yes looking at your recent video you can now row with much better technique and physically you even look better, the problem with this is that your improved technique is NOT going to compensate for the fact your 7 years older and you have clearly demonstrated this with your recent 2K times that you no longer have the same level of aerobic capacity you had in 2003, you can directly attribute this change to age.

Your not going to get faster with age unless you were never at your peak fitness level at some point in the past to start with, like me now rowing faster than I was five years ago, not that hard as I was never "Sharpened" to start with and 5 months of more serious training is all it took to surpass it.

Honestly, you should flag the silly predictions (that just wind everyone on the forum up) of an even better time than that of 7 years ago and now focus on making your mark on the verified 60-69 age group times.

[ranger]

Watched your 2003 video and you couldn't row for shit. You had no leg drive at all and you basically thrashed away at the Erg and only did what you did due to your peak level of aerobic fitness at the time, which was very impressive.

Glad to hear that you agree. Several distinguished/accomplished rowers on this forum have claimed just the opposite, that my technique in 2003 was just fine. Nonsense.

Yes looking at your recent video you can now row with much better technique

Glad to hear that you agree. This is what I have tried to accomplish over the last several years. This is what I have now accomplished. It is this transformation in technique that has been difficult to a accomplish while racing, too, either in training or at race venues. Especially at the highest level of achievement, rowing is all about relaxed, unconscious skeletal-muscular habits. If you change these habits wholesale, you destroy this relaxed, unconscious habituation and your skeletal-muscular efficiency drops to zero. You can't race well when you are thinking about each stroke, and even so, without succeeding in doing what you know you need to do.

and physically you even look better

Yes, thanks for that. Indeed, I feel great, the best I have ever felt phsically in my life. The better you row, the greater the skeletal-muscular demands on each stroke. A good rowing stroke is a _very_ challenging affair, physically, if you do it rowing well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights). I rowed well at low rates for five years. This is transformational. You build muscles where you have never had them before.

the problem with this is that your improved technique is NOT going to compensate for the fact your 7 years older

No evidence for this at all, Carl. Paul Hendershott was better at 60 than he was at 55, and he did it by just working harder physically, not by improving his technique. Honestly, I don't think that my physical capacities have fallen much at all over the last seven years, and I think the timed distance trials, sharpening routines, and 2Ks that I do this coming year will demonstrate this. I'll wear a heartrate monitor. I think what it will show, in fact, is that while my aerobic capacity (e.g., anaerobic threshold) is the same, I am now much efficient and effective at the same heart rate. I go a lot faster![/quote]

and you have clearly demonstrated this with your recent 2K times that you no longer have the same level of aerobic capacity you had in 2003, you can directly attribute this change to age.

No, the timed pieces that I have trained for so far (e.g., 500r30, 1Kr24) show that I am much better than I used to be. I am now ready to do distance trials. I am fully trained up for them. I think these trials will also show that I am much better than I used to be. The 2Ks that I have been doing, I suspect, are little more that top-end UT1. You need to bring up your anaerobic capacities in order to do a good 2K. A good 2K is also helped enormously by a protracted period of hard distance rowing, including distance trials. The best thing for your 2K is hard 5/6 Ks.

Your not going to get faster with age unless you were never at your peak fitness level at some point in the past to start with, like me now rowing faster than I was five years ago, not that hard as I was never "Sharpened" to start with and 5 months of more serious training is all it took to surpass it.

That is only true (1) if I have declined significantly in my physical capacities, even though you say I look better and even though my impression is that I have _not_ declined physically and (2) massive improvement in technique is irrelevant to rowing a 2K on the erg. I think you are wrong about both of these. The timed trials, sharpening routines, and 2Ks that I do this next year, I think, will demonstrate this.

Honestly, you should flag the silly predictions (that just wind everyone on the forum up) of an even better time than that of 7 years ago and now focus on making your mark on the verified 60-69 age group times.

No reason for me to be wrong about these things just because you are. I also have plenty of time this year to establish standards in the 55s age group that will last for a long, long time. So I am looking forward to this. I am not yet 60, you know. At BIRC 2010, I think I will row in the range of 20 seconds under Roy Brook's 55s lwt WR. Yes, sure, then, after that, when I row as a 60s lwt, I will be in the range of 30 seconds better over 2K than my closest competitor and somewhere in the range of 25 seconds over 2K, over six seconds per 500m, under the existing standards in the division.

Smart, hard training pays off.

ranger

[ranger]

Most people seem to do 2K about six spm above what they rate for 5K/6K.

So, the absolute best training for a 2K, I think, is to do a lot of 5K/6Ks at 32 spm.

That would prepare you for rating 38 spm in a 2K.

Even if you pull just 10 SPI, 32 spm is 1:43.

If you pull 11 SPI, as I now do, even stroking lightly, 32 spm is 1:39.

At the moment, the best 55s/60s lightweights pull 5K at 28 spm and 10 SPI.

They can't get the rate up.

Or pull hard.

ranger

[ranger]

now focus on making your mark on the verified 60-69 age group times.

Well.

Not so fast on this one.

By this fall, I will be fully trained and racing well.

Before Jan. 25, 2011, when I turn 60, I think I will set new standards for 50s lwts at all distances.

Sure, then, in 2011, I will go on and revise the 60s age-group standards, too, right at the level of the 50s standards I will set in 2010.

ranger

[mrfit]

I'm buying it that Ranger will rank a piece or two this month, as he said. Things look good. Better stroke. Stroke rate is high again. Fitness is solid. HR monitor on. 13 days. Launch window is open!

[hjs]

I'm buying it that Ranger will rank a piece or two this month, as he said. Things look good. Better stroke. Stroke rate is high again. Fitness is solid. HR monitor on. 13 days. Launch window is open!

sure

[whp4]

I'm buying it that Ranger will rank a piece or two this month, as he said. Things look good. Better stroke. Stroke rate is high again. Fitness is solid. HR monitor on. 13 days. Launch window is open!

I remember some elderly professor going on and on at the beginning of the season about how he was going to do a series of races lowering the WR down to some level unreachable by ordinary mortals. I wasn't able to follow the forum closely for a while -- does anyone know how that turned out? I confess, I'm a bit confused as to whether these rows were to take place this season or last, but I do recall they would start "in the Fall."

[ranger]

I'm buying it that Ranger will rank a piece or two this month, as he said. Things look good. Better stroke. Stroke rate is high again. Fitness is solid. HR monitor on. 13 days. Launch window is open!

Yep.

Training is coming along great.

Classes end here at the University of Michigan on Tuesday.

Then I'll start to do some distance trials.

I don't have to go back to teaching until September 10th.

So, I'll have some time to get these trials in, no?

The monies have arrived from my mother, so I'll order my Fluidesign 1x over the next couple of days.

http://www.rowfluidesign.com/products/singles.php

It should arrive here by the end of May, in plenty of time for my to take it out East to row with Mike on the Connecticut River.

ranger

[whp4]

The monies have arrived from my mother, so I'll order my Fluidesign 1x over the next couple of days.

Don't forget to pay hjs. I'm sure he will pay you at least as promptly upon verification that you have won your bet.

[KevJGK]

Classes end here at the University of Michigan on Tuesday.

Then I'll start to do some distance trials.

Yes, those classes must really take it out of you.

[ranger]

Classes end here at the University of Michigan on Tuesday.

Then I'll start to do some distance trials.

Yes, those classes must really take it out of you.

So, you've done professorial work and found it easy?

You must be natural at it.

ranger

[ranger]

Would any one like to bet that he will do distance trials...as a lwt...??

Weight is irrelevant for these trials, but since I am at weight, sure, I'll list them in the 50s lwt rankings.

ranger

[ranger]

All hail Reid Frawd!

Yea, I am sure that Rod's distance times intimidate you pretty severely.

His standard workout was 2 x 30min @ 1:44.

He did 1:45 for a HM.

That's about eight seconds per 500m faster than you can do a HM.

So, sure, your acting out here is understandable.

ranger