Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[gregsmith01748]

I have a hard time believing that I don't respond. My times go down and my ability to go longer goes up. There is something stuck with the middle distance (5K) paces that Is annoying. But I gotta believe that that can be worked on.

Isn't that basically the definition of being a "responder"? You are making consistent progress by most measures. The key finding from the Seiler lecture was essentially that coaches and athletes have to monitor progress and then change things if the rate of progress slows or stops, and especially that something that works for one athlete might not work for another.

Specifically about the middle distances, I have found that they require some specialized training to do really well at them. It is more than just having the aerobic base and the ability to crank out some good intervals. To really nail a 5K, 6K or 30', you have to do some hard distance pieces that push up against the edge of what you can do. Since this distance is really important to me for OTW, I do a full out 5 of 6K piece every week during the summer. A big part of what I am doing is convincing myself that it is possible to sustain the level of effort for 20 to 30 minutes without giving up.

[G-dub]

W1: Steady Distance

70 minutes (10', 40', 20') of wasted time didn't bother with any more because it's not doing any good

Just kidding. Rest day tomorrow. Hard Distance Friday.

[jackarabit]

And your interval execution is OK now, Glenn? Glad that's off the table! I won't lose sleep because I speculated about the origins of something that doesn't exist. I've had many troubles in MY life, and most em never happened. You?

[G-dub]

And your interval execution is OK now, Glenn? Glad that's off the table and I won't lose sleep because I speculated about the origins of something that doesn't exist. I've had many troubles in MY life, and most em never happened. You?

Please Jack, I wasn't pissed at you, I was pissed at the possibility that I wasn't Improving. I appreciate your input as much as anyone's and also appreciate that you actually care that I am sucking at the moment! And my post about my workout today wasn't directed at you, even though I can see now how that was an easy interpretation. I was just taking the P out of the whole thing.

[G-dub]

Glenn, Greg has the entire article on his blog so best read there (to include comments by Greg's correspondents). Much easier to follow than the uTube vid! No, I am not saying you wasted your time in the base building period preceding PP start. I'm saying the longer components of the PP continuous training may not be working for you now. As an example, I stated earlier in this thread apropos of plan volume and intensity that it might make sense to do only 5k or 6k for hard distance BEFORE contemplating adding recovery days. You were talking at that date of stepping the hard distance down each week (from a high of 10k I recall) to achieve paces closer to 2k pace as the test date approached. Why not eliminate the long hard day rows resulting in decreasing volume and increasing overall intensity from the gitgo. That is periodization.

Good thought. I guess I was assuming that with as much time as I had before February 20 that I would stick with a longer program until 8 weeks out or so. I didn't want to max out too early. But maybe it's time to focus on 5K-30' as you suggest.

[jackarabit]

Jeez, you're hard to not get along with! And me just the opposite! Let's put your original query (to Henry and Greg so I did butt in there) down to lack of sleep and my response to the high probability that I don't know sh7t from apple butter. I got to stop giving advice! Jack

[G-dub]

Jeez, you're hard to not get along with! And me just the opposite! Let's put your original query (to Henry and Greg so I did butt in there) down to lack of sleep and my response to the high probability that I don't know sh7t from apple butter. I got to stop giving advice! Jack

Not at all - I actually thought that the crack about my lying sleepless pondering my current suckiness would distract from the real question I was asking, but I thought it was a funny line. And there are plenty of people that find all kinds of reasons not to like me, so don't feel alone!

I would like to know, in all honesty, what a non-responder is. I've googled it and found that some are genetically wired such that they don't improve VO2 Max from training. But if 2K is a proxy for VO2 Max, and the time goes down, how can one be a non responder. Is there anyone out there that has not improved? Or has improved so slowly that it seems like they haven't? Maybe I will google some more.

[jackarabit]

I have sure learned to smile when I say non-responder! The bar graphs don't say much about the threshold of non-response but I admit it would not be average response or relatively low response but most probably just no response whatever. Obviously Greg is correct that you set out last summer to improve your 2k time and did so which means you responded positively to PP. I regret playing shock jock with nervous-making sci-speak and apologize to you for doing so, Glenn.

[G-dub]

But your point is right that it's not a one size fits all thing. For some reason I came into the last PP and was able to hit the first sessions pretty nicely - especially the 5 X 1500. This time after the prescribed "base building" I came in not really able to keep up with the first time I did 5 X 1500, let alone my best time. One would have thought that it would have been different. Maybe I am genetically wired to drink more beer and train less. Or maybe the mtn biking had some conditioning associated with it (strength from climbing, threshold tolerance from pushing the climbs) that the long rows didn't give me and I've lost some power and stamina. Anyway, I'm trying not to put too much on this first cycle, so maybe it will snap around in the next rounds.

Sorry folks that Ive managed to make this all about me. I tend to go there at least once a week.

[left coaster]

If you're into genetics testing Athletigen.com may interest you. They're just out of 'beta' and all this stuff is still very new with most of it not adequately supported by evidence, but it is rather interesting. For various reasons I've done a fair bit of genetic testing and I have a profile on this site, I show as a moderate to high VO2 max responder. At the same time my SNP's for metabolic efficiency are really poor...

Being a non-responder would be strange indeed. I guess it would mean that any change in times would be to improved anaerobic threshold, mitochondrial function, glycogen storage, muscle strength etc. and that the person's aerobic system has not actually changed at all. This is fine if you're born with a high VO2 max, but for someone who needs training to build capacity it would kinda suck I think.

Turns out I'm also immune to HIV (via Delta32) and am APOE 2/2, so I have the lowest possible odds of getting Alzheimer's in so far as risk is measured by these 2 specific SNP's. Both of these occur in about 1% of the population and I expect the odds of having 2 together are absurdly low. In short, my ancestors at one point likely survived the plague in western Europe and then the aftermath of needing to eat meat and fat for a couple generations as agriculture got re-established. Genetics are interesting, although not my specialization by any means.

[jackarabit]

Tim writes:

For various reasons I've done a fair bit of genetic testing and I have a profile on this site [Athletigen.com], I show as a moderate to high VO2 max responder.

Does this "genetic" testing involve solely DNA-correlated predictors of physiological potential? Or is there a treadmill, a vampire, and tests of blood chemistry also?

[left coaster]

Nope, no actual sticky stuff -- just spit in a vial or swab your cheek and send it in the mail, depends on the platform.

I'm on 23andme, ftDNA, Athletigen, GEDMATCH, a couple health platforms etc. We do some genetic testing in our lab and I got a bit curious.

[G-dub]

Lefty - interesting stuff. I might try that some day.

If you all haven't done it yet, you might peruse the PP Summer thread particularly the first 12 or so pages. In it, our friend Greg lays down some truths that I personally need to review prior to each session it appears. Of course you will have to wade through the rest of our blab, but picking his thoughts out of the thread is very worthwhile. Funny how the conversations seem similar, the whining is the same and the same mistakes are being made, at least by one of us (and I don't mean you Mr Rabbit).

[bisqeet]

W1D6 recovery row
HM (21097m)
HR Cap 130,
SPM 22,
Pace 2:13,2/500m
1:33:39

Total Meters W1 >80k

[G-dub]

W1D6 recovery row
HM (21097m)
HR Cap 130,
SPM 22,
Pace 2:13,2/500m
1:33:39

Total Meters W1 >80k

Bisqeet isn't messing around. He's on a mission. Well done, sir.