The Two Types of Training

[lancs]

Shit.

More shit.

More excuses why it is shit.

Classy touch Prof. I'm sorry you feel you have to descend to the gutter to articulate your thoughts. Such is your personality disorder I guess. My apologies for rattling the cage, a little bit naive of me.

Good luck with your distance trials that you are shortly about to rank.

[ranger]

Weight doesn't matter

Sure, weight matters competitively.

Making weight is worth about 17 seconds vis-a-vis my competition and WRs.

My point was that it doesn't matter with respect to the times I pull.

Being heavier doesn't make me faster.

What you bring up is becoming interesting, too, though.

If I even pull sub-6:30, which I think I will do pretty easily when I am fully trained, weight doesn't even matter competitively.

The 60s hwt WR is 6:24, but that row by Hendershott was six or seven seconds better than what anyone else sixty years old has ever done.

No other 60s heavyweight has pulled sub-6:30 in the history of the sport.

No 60s lwt has pulled under 6:42.

Mike VB and Rocket Roy will have trouble pulling 6:50 when they are 60.

RANKING RESULTS 2010

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Heavyweight | Custom Age Range (59–70) | Current 2010 Season

1 TJ Oesterling 61 Waikoloa HI USA 6:30.4 IND_V
2 Robert Spousta 60 Fairfax VA USA 6:33.6 RACE
3 Larry O'Toole 59 Andover MA USA 6:34.7 RACE
4 Manfred Ludwig Karl Dürr 62 GER 6:39.1 RACE
5 Curt Kaufmann 59 Philadelphia PA USA 6:43.0 IND
6 James Castellan 64 Rose Valley PA USA 6:43.8 RACE
7 Stu Miller 61 Falmouth ME USA 6:45.2 C2Log
8 William Konarzewski 60 Free Spirits IRC Free Spirits GBR 6:45.7 RACE
9 Mike Tebay 63 Cos Cob CT USA 6:46.4 RACE

ranger

[ranger]

At this lower drag (135 df.), my MPS fall but my rate picks up the difference without any loss of pace, and the result is quite a bit easier.

Yep.

Rupp and the Danish lightweights have it right.

When I gun the motors up to race pace, I pull 8 MPS--on the button.

1:34 @ 40 spm

The rate doesn't feel that fast at all, though.

My catches and finishes are much quicker, given my better technique.

Hard to believe, but 40 spm feels pretty relaxed.

At this lighter drag, my distance ratings float upward, too.

32 spm is now relaxed and, at times, even becomes 34 spm.

Wow.

I would love to do a 5K (and the Head of the Charles OTW) at 34 spm.

Don't know for sure yet, but it looks like I am going to race a 2K at 40 spm.

Yikes.

A 60-year-old, motoring along at 40 spm, still pulling 10.5 SPI!

2K, 1:34 @ 40 spm, pulling 10.5 SPI, would _exactly_ duplicate what Eskild pulled to win the 30s lightweight hammer at WIRC 2010.

8 MPS--on the button.

ranger

[hjs]

At 60, I am going to pull a 6:16 2K.

If you do that I'm going to eat a toasted C2 rubber seat pad with a nice bechamel sauce, boiled carrots and mashed potatoes. Sir P is going to emit one gold block (he never did say how big or what carat) from his rectal passage.

I suspect Henry will be paying up on his debt as well.

I will be his slave for the rest of my life promisse!!!

[ranger]

At 10.5 SPI, Rocket Roy and Mike VB would hold 31 spm in a 2K.

So there is the difference--rate.

9 spm

Where does this difference come from?

Partly from effectiveness (UT2), partly from efficiency (UT1), partly from aerobic capacity (genetics and physical habits over a lifetime).

It probably doesn't have anything to do with anaerobic pathways (AT, TR, AN).

ranger

[mikvan52]

This from bobble-louie, 4:04 pm yesterday

I'm taking his question seriously. Sometimes I wonder why

(Citroen has admonished me about my attitude)

Mike--

Just because you can only rate 24 spm for 5K doesn't mean thaI have to.

I'll rate 32 spm for 5K, both OTW and on the erg.

What's the difference?

Aerobic capacity.

Come on.

Admit it.

You' d _love_ to rae 32 spm for 5K.

But you can't.

{fun razzing omitted to conserve decorum}

"what's the difference (between the erger-king and me)?"
Answer:
I know that I cannot trade pace for rate very easily on the water. erger-king feels oder-wise.
Look at this speedwork I did in a single yesterday in preparation for the coming 1k season:



1000 in 4:10.7 (2:05.x pace) (warm up)
1. 500m in 1:50.1 @ 29.5 (getting the feel)
2. 500m in 1:49.9 @ 32.0 (not happy with the feel; decided to drop rate on #3)
3. 500m in 1:42.3 @ 31.0

There are three 500m pieces here w/roughly 10 minutes rowing between each one.
Notice the rates. Compare these to the pace. What can be concluded (if anything)?

First: #3 shows I can go fast at 31 spm
Second: #2 was slower although the rate was higher

This erging community should recognize that 1:42.x in a single is not achieved by many 57 year-olds...

I'll let you in on some general attitudes.
I know that if I were younger I would scull at higher rates and go even faster. I don't "wish" I could because I know that age is the issue.
Even though these are just 500m pieces instead of 5000's, the same consideration must be given in regard to pace. I need to scull where (in rate) I'm most effective.

One of the biggest things experienced scullers realize about the transportability of rate from the erg is that form has to be paramount to fit the ambition for speed.

If you, OTOH, are happy with your form, you should be satisfied to "stay the course".

I want to be kind: of the 61 youtube videos showing rowing-by-ranger, your form has improved. I hope you don't feel it's now "fixed". Increasing rate using a hypothetically "fixed" form of the type you exhibit is not going to yeild 60 -69 OTW victories OTW.

Back to the razzing:
Hey buddy! What's your fastest timed 500m piece OTW.
An OTW 1:42.3 predicts an OTW 2k at (blah-blah-blah) and an OTW head race at (blah-blah-blah). (BS!)

[aharmer]

Request for witness to distance trials conveniently ignored.

[mikvan52]

Another pointless reply to "the ka-ka-king" (see the post of April 16th, 2010, 5:39 pm)

So you want "something new", do you?

How's 'bout posting an IND_V workout (doesn't have to be a near max trial) w/HR and detailed splits.
It will show your progress toward being like Elskid! That would be new: something real from ranger (not predicted) for us all to talk about.

Something like THIS 5K would do. It should be well within your capabilities as a soon-to-post 17-flat 5k guy...

Who knows? Soon you may even surpass that other guy. What was his name? Reid Frawd??

[whp4]

Weight doesn't matter

Sure, weight matters competitively.

Making weight is worth about 17 seconds vis-a-vis my competition and WRs.

My point was that it doesn't matter with respect to the times I pull.

Being heavier doesn't make me faster.

Right. That's why your best post-2003 row (as a heavyweight in Baltimore in 2006) was 6:29.7, and your final appearance in Boston just a few weeks later, rowing as a lightweight, was 7:04.3. You row equally fast in either weight class, your weight was perfect, stroke fixed, going to smash all the records, etc. The only record you might have smashed that day was for the most handle-downs during a race by a former WR-holder

Try to remember to wipe all the spittle off the monitor when you're done responding, your wife shouldn't have to do that for you!

[ranger]

What's your fastest timed 500m piece OTW.

This forum is not primarily about OTW rowing.

This thread is not about OTW rowing.

My comments have not been primarily about OTW rowing.

If you want to discuss the details of your sculling, do it somewhere more appropriate.

How about in your own diary?

I am sure that people will flock there in droves to find out what you are doing with your sculling.

ranger

[ranger]

That's why your best post-2003 row (as a heavyweight in Baltimore in 2006) was 6:29.7, and your final appearance in Boston just a few weeks later, rowing as a lightweight, was 7:04.3.

I just had some fat to lose and not quite enough time before WIRC to lose it.

The Baltimore Burn in 2006 was on February 11th, only a week or two before WIRC.

I rowed as a heavyweight at he Burn because I was not able to make weight at earlier venues that year and the Burn was my last chance to qualify for WIRC.

Losing fat just takes time and disciplined eating.

It isn't hard at all.

Fat doesn't make you erg faster.

Losing fat doesn't make you erg slower.

This applies to everyone.

For instance, Rocket Roy's best 2K time on the erg was as a lightweight, even though he has done many more 2Ks as a heavyweight than he has as a lightweight.

ranger

[mikvan52]

What's your fastest timed 500m piece OTW.

This forum is not primarily about OTW rowing.

This thread is not about OTW rowing.

My comments have not been primarily about OTW rowing.

If you want to discuss the details of your sculling, do it somewhere more appropriate.



ranger

You brought up 24 spm OTW 5ks not me!

What about this:

So you want "something new", do you?

How's 'bout posting an IND_V workout (doesn't have to be a near max trial) w/HR and detailed splits.
It will show your progress toward being like Elskid! That would be new: something real from ranger (not predicted) for us all to talk about.

Something like THIS 5K would do. It should be well within your capabilities as a soon-to-post 17-flat 5k guy...

[ranger]

So you want "something new", do you?

How's 'bout posting an IND_V workout (doesn't have to be a near max trial) w/HR and detailed splits.
It will show your progress toward being like Elskid! That would be new: something real from ranger (not predicted) for us all to talk about.

Something like THIS 5K would do. It should be well within your capabilities as a soon-to-post 17-flat 5k guy...

Did you miss this?

(I have said it repeatedly.)

I am doing trials at all the distances before the end of the month.

That will give you paces, HRs, etc.

I'll do them IND_V and enter them in the 50s lwt rankings.

Patience, bro.

ranger

[mikvan52]

That's why your best post-2003 row (as a heavyweight in Baltimore in 2006) was 6:29.7, and your final appearance in Boston just a few weeks later, rowing as a lightweight, was 7:04.3.

I just had some (hydration) to lose and not quite enough time before WIRC to lose it.

The Baltimore Burn in 2006 was on February 11th, only a week or two before WIRC.

I rowed as a heavyweight at he Burn because I was not able to make weight at earlier venues that year and the Burn was my last chance to qualify for WIRC.

Losing (water) just takes time and disciplined (stepper gArbage).

It isn't hard at all.

(snip)
Losing (water) doesn't make you erg slower.(it puts you in a group of slower people on the erg)



ranger

(edited for truth)

[mikvan52]

So you want "something new", do you?

How's 'bout posting an IND_V workout (doesn't have to be a near max trial) w/HR and detailed splits.
It will show your progress toward being like Elskid! That would be new: something real from ranger (not predicted) for us all to talk about.

Something like THIS 5K would do. It should be well within your capabilities as a soon-to-post 17-flat 5k guy...

Did you miss this?

(I have said it repeatedly.)

I am doing trials at all the distances before the end of the month.

That will give you paces, HRs, etc.

I'll do them IND_V and enter them in the 50s lwt rankings.

Patience, bro.

ranger

Which ones do you promise to do? I know already that you won't do them all...