Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

1:50 @ 20 spm (13 SPI) for a HM predicts a 6:16 2K.

In 2006, when he set the 55s lwt WR at 6:38/1:39.5, Rocket Roy did 1:55.5 @ 20 spm (11.3 SPI) for a HM.

The difference between 1:50 and 1:55.5, 5.5 seconds per 500m, is the equivalent of 22 seconds over 2K.

6:38 minus 22 seconds is 6:16.

Given the normal decline with age, the prediction now, five years later, is that Rocket Roy could only do 1:57.5 @ 20 spm (10.8 SPI) for a HM.

ranger

[PaulH]

No, the 6:29 just comes from adding/subtracting what I regularly get from sharpening

Regularly = With constant frequency or pattern
get = present tense, distinct from got

So, how often have you been getting this 12 seconds from sharpening recently?

PS - You assured me that you were doing a 2K on Sept 1st, but I can't find the time in this thread. Could you repost the information for me?

[Carl Watts]

But you cannot row a HM at 1:50 pace no matter what rating you try so the prediction is pointless.

Besides what happened to your FM at 1:49 pace ?

A better idea would be to actually row a HM, post the results and we will tell you what your 2K will time will be, that's how it works.

My predicted 2K time based on the latest actual rows and comparing actual results from those closest to my distance times on the C2 Rankings is now 6:39.

The big thing here is that I have not yet actually rowed a 6:39 2K as I need to do some interval training at 1:40 pace and work out my best spm to acheive it and get used to rowing at 1:40 pace. Funny thing is I have only ever raced one 2K ! prefering instead to do the 500M and distance PB's.

Interestingly you are now rowing with about the same performance as me, which is pretty good for a 60 year old. You wouldn't beat me in the 500M because you don't have the power but it would be pretty close in the 2K.

[ranger]

So, how often have you been getting this 12 seconds from sharpening recently?

It's not just me.

_Everyone_ sharpens in pretty much the same way for pretty much the same benefit: a dozen seconds over 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

But you cannot row a HM at 1:50 pace

There is no evidence for this claim.

I am now rowing 1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI) for 10K or so every day, as a warm up, before the faster interval work that I need to do to sharpen.

I'll do this for the next six months.

So, I'll do about 2 million meters of this low rate rowing before WIRC.

At low rates and high, I now pull 13 SPI.

I am now rowing perfectly.

118 df.

ranger

[ranger]

Carl--

If you want to row perfectly, too, just do a lot of 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI).

Five or ten years of it, 20K a day, should get the job done.

In the bigger picture of things, what is five or ten years, if you end of accomplishing something significant?

A blink of the eye.

ranger

[ranger]

A better idea would be to actually row a HM, post the results and we will tell you what your 2K will time will be, that's how it works.

For training?

Nope.

Only those who don't know their ass from their elbow race their training.

The point of good training is to accomplish something, not to predict something.

It is only after the two million meters of training, just before you race, that you do a trial to see what you are going to pull for 2K at the race venue.

BIRC 2010 is three months away.

WIRC 2011 isn't for another half of a year.

ranger

[KevJGK]

It is only after the two million meters of training, just before you race, that you do a trial to see what you are going to pull for 2K at the race venue.

If you believe this then why did you say you would do a 2K trial on September 1st?

[ranger]

Carl--

If you want to train yourself to row a HM, 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI), the primary issue is not whether you can do it right now, but whether you have a technique that lets you do 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI) with just a normal stroke, without straining unnaturally, over-pulling.

That is, the primary issue is about your natural stroking power.

To row 1:43 @ 20 spm for a HM, you need to have a certain level of technical effectiveness and efficiency.

You need to row perfectly.

ranger

[Citroen]

If you want to train yourself to row a HM, 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI), the primary issue is not whether you can do it right now, but whether you have a technique that lets you do 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI) with just a normal stroke, without straining unnaturally, over-pulling.

There's the problem. There's the reason you can't do a 1:49 FM. Your anchor hauling technique is still not fixed, sorry but you ARE NOT rowing "perfectly".

[Carl Watts]

It is only after the two million meters of training, just before you race, that you do a trial to see what you are going to pull for 2K at the race venue.

If you believe this then why did you say you would do a 2K trial on September 1st?

That makes two of us.

Sorry Ranger but your pace & spm's above are rubbish they are simply not acheivable by you for a full non stop HM.

My prediction is that you will row a 6:4X.x time in 3 months time at best and only if you don't blow it by trying to go faster at the start.

If I have learned anything so far it is that you have about 5 seconds at the start to quickly get the Flywheel up to your intended ave/500M pace on the monitor at your optimum spm and hold it there for the duration of the event. If you have any gas left in the tank near the end you can sprint but this is really only a sign you should have lifted your pace slightly for the rest of the race.With a maximal effort you hit the wall at the finish line, not like most of your 2K atempts and my only one so far where I hit the wall in the middle and had to recover. Basically your race is over if this happens as you have discovered and your resulting time is a 7:00+ or a DNF in your case.

[hjs]

Carl--

If you want to train yourself to row a HM, 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI), the primary issue is not whether you can do it right now, but whether you have a technique that lets you do 1:43 @ 20 spm (16 SPI) with just a normal stroke, without straining unnaturally, over-pulling.

That is, the primary issue is about your natural stroking power.

To row 1:43 @ 20 spm for a HM, you need to have a certain level of technical effectiveness and efficiency.

You need to row perfectly.

ranger

What is need is a very big motor, and some technique, but even with a poor technique a big motor will get your far.
You even can,t row 1min at that pace/rate. So there is no point in "training for this" it,s far beyond your horizon.

[PaulH]

_Everyone_ sharpens in pretty much the same way for pretty much the same benefit: a dozen seconds over 2K.

There is no evidence for this claim.

And of course, nobody in the history of rowing has ever trained as you do (including the 2003-2006 version of you), so even if your unsubstantiated claim was true in general, that still doesn't mean that it applies to you.

[ranger]

Everyone gets about a dozen seconds over 2K by doing hard anaerobic training for 2-3 months before they race.

Try it yourself.

Do a 2K without doing any sharpening.

Then do a 2K when you are fully sharpened.

The difference will be about a dozen seconds.

ranger

[Citroen]

Try it yourself.

It's your thread, YOU try it.

No, wait ...

You won't race your training, you won't do a 2K as you're scared to see how bad the result will be.