Endurance erging - A place to discuss 42, 50, 100k upwards.

[Dangerscouse]

On the hand sweat, I've played around with wristbands (etc) to absorb it.

I would also highly recommend liquid chalk. I never row a longer harder row without it

[Sakly]

On the hand sweat, I've played around with wristbands (etc) to absorb it.

I would also highly recommend liquid chalk. I never row a longer harder row without it

+1

[GlennUk]

After my attempt to improve on my 100m PB over the last 3 months or so, i have now returned to training for another marathon.

I am following the same Eddie Fletcher FM plan i used previously, which in terms of gauging performance is helpful since I can directly compare peforamnce now, with previous efforts giving a direct comparison.

For context I have been using EF FM/100k plans since Jan 2021, and had seen continual improvements over that period of time in HR versus pace, i.e. higher paces for the same HR values.

I was worried that taking 3 months 'off' would result in a dramatic drop in endurance which would of course be reflected in the HR Vs pace metric. The training during that period was in essence WU/WD for 2k gentle rowing, with day 1 10x starts, about 2mins of actual rowing but obvs high intensity, day 2 weights, day 3 rest, repeat.

However, yesterday, day 3of the second week of the plan, I did the first long sessions of 3 x 25mins r3:00, each rep at different HR% and spm for a total distance (inc active rest of) 17265m. Looking back at the two previous efforts, I recorded 15984m and 16934m (inc active rest).

Be interesting to see how i progress (or not as the case may be) going forward.

[RWAGR]

Hi All-

As an update, my marathon training is going well. Doing lots of sessions at c. 1 hour/ 15k. Aiming to row the marathon in late March/ first week April before Easter.

This weekend I'm doing my first benchmark workout which will be a HM trying to set a PB (1:26:28.1, 2.02.9 pace). I'm pretty confident I'll beat it given that 15k in an hour at r21-22 is no problem for me at the moment.

I do plan on doing some other HM-ish sessions in the future where I will do them slower, at marathon pace, to practice taking on fluids, changing music etc.

My question is specifically for a HM time trial- do you guys take fluids at all at this distance? I don't feel the need to when rowing a 60 minute piece. I wonder however whether the extra c.26 mins will make that unrealistic.

Thanks!

[Sakly]

My question is specifically for a HM time trial- do you guys take fluids at all at this distance? I don't feel the need to when rowing a 60 minute piece. I wonder however whether the extra c.26 mins will make that unrealistic.

No fluids for me at a HM. My last HM was 1:21:35 @r20 and felt strong through the complete session.
At slower HMs I feel even less necessary to drink something.
I am curious if this will be the same at a full marathon, which I thought of end of the season...

[Dangerscouse]

My question is specifically for a HM time trial- do you guys take fluids at all at this distance? I don't feel the need to when rowing a 60 minute piece. I wonder however whether the extra c.26 mins will make that unrealistic.

I don't have any fluids for anything less than 20 miles (32k) and I have never regretted it, and I always sweat A LOT. I do drink a lot of fluids every day, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Tbh, I only have fluids for any longer as I'm not prepared to risk doing it without, but it might be interesting to see what would happen. Admittedly, 'interesting' isn't enough of a reason to consider it though

[iain]

My question is specifically for a HM time trial- do you guys take fluids at all at this distance? I don't feel the need to when rowing a 60 minute piece. I wonder however whether the extra c.26 mins will make that unrealistic.

I don't have any fluids for anything less than 20 miles (32k) and I have never regretted it, and I always sweat A LOT. I do drink a lot of fluids every day, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Tbh, I only have fluids for any longer as I'm not prepared to risk doing it without, but it might be interesting to see what would happen. Admittedly, 'interesting' isn't enough of a reason to consider it though

General wisdom is that HM is fastest without drinking, but a full on FM causes a minority to bonk ("the wall"), which leads to significant slowing. The chance of this is reduced if you take on sugars with the drink. That said, I would train with drinking what you will use. For my 111Km I made the drinks too concentrated and had serious intestinal issues from 45km onwards. Basically if the fluid in your gut is more concentrated than your body then you will need to hydrate your gut to absorb the sugar. This won't happen if you are dehydrated (and remember without this you won't be taking on much fluid). I have found that I can cope with higher concentrations with training 'though. We are all different, just try it out before the attempt!

[GlennUk]

I agree with the others, no need to take on fluid for HM, assuming of course that you are hydrated before you start.

What i would say is work out what you will drink during an 'event' and drink it during training and use that to practice drinking. It also allows you to determine how long it takes to take that drink, how much fluid you can take on over an hour (or whatever period) and form that you can determine how much carbs you are likely to be able to take on, and deal with any deficit if indeed there is one.

Also it allows you to determine what your likley fluid requirements are too, my guide was for c.800,mls per hour, i roweded for 11.5hours, and drank c./3.5litres and worked out my deficit was c. 300mls over that period. The point being i needed a lot less than my training guide suggested and if i had persisted with trying to drink the amount suggested, i have no doubt it owul dhave been detrimental for me.

My energy drink, was orange squash, mixed with c.5g of salt plus a teaspoon of sugar in a litre of water. I use this all through training when building up to a FM or longer rows.

This gives your a chance for your body to used to the mix and allows adjustment if necessary to find what is palatable (it doesn't have to be nice) and something that allows your body to absorb the necessary salts/carbs during the FM or longer rows.

[RWAGR]

Thanks all!

Well, I rowed my HM today and happy to say I beat my historic PB by 2 min 12.6 seconds. I knew I would beat it as I’m 40 lbs lighter and much fitter, but I’m happy to take over 2 minutes off.

Overall this felt fine with no fluids. Surprisingly, I had no ass pain at all despite rowing without a pad and just some Vaseline. I’m going to try that for longer training rows but it might be I don’t need a pad for the FM.

My hands are a different story. I’ve never had issues up to an hour but today they got torn up pretty well. Going to try some grip tape.

All in all I’m feeling good about going sub 3 hours in 6 weeks’ time.

HM PB

1:24:15.6 at r21 and pace 1.59.8.

Basic breakdown:

0-6k 2.01.x, r21
7-11k 2.00.x r21
12-16k 1.59.x r22/23
17-19k 1.58.x r23
20k 1.57.9 r23
21k 1.52.4 r25
And a 97 meter sprint at 1.43.6 and r30

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks all!

Well, I rowed my HM today and happy to say I beat my historic PB by 2 min 12.6 seconds. I knew I would beat it as I’m 40 lbs lighter and much fitter, but I’m happy to take over 2 minutes off.

Overall this felt fine with no fluids. Surprisingly, I had no ass pain at all despite rowing without a pad and just some Vaseline. I’m going to try that for longer training rows but it might be I don’t need a pad for the FM.

My hands are a different story. I’ve never had issues up to an hour but today they got torn up pretty well. Going to try some grip tape.

All in all I’m feeling good about going sub 3 hours in 6 weeks’ time.

HM PB

1:24:15.6 at r21 and pace 1.59.8.

Well done Rob. Sub three hours is definitely achievable, but the second half of an FM can all too often be a world of difference from the first half. You're basically training for the last 10k. How hard did this feel? I assume it wasn't too horrible as you managed a sprint at the end.

Ime, arse ache is something that faded eventually, so hopefully that's the same for you.

Do you use liquid chalk? I definitely recommend that, and I'd also recommend draping a hand towel over the rail, just past the handle cradle, so you can grab it one handed to dry your hands when they get really sweaty.

Eventually the callousness on your hands will develop and you'll not tear them apart. I used to use cheap kinesiology tape to wrap around the worst parts of my hands when I first started with longer distances. Nowadays I don't use anything for any distance, but my hands can still get a little bit tender if I do a faster, sweaty longer session.

[RWAGR]

Thanks Stu.

How hard did this feel? I assume it wasn't too horrible as you managed a sprint at the end.

Aerobically this felt fine. I was tired at the end but had more in the tank. The tough part was the hands and general body strain. I think that's a question of getting used to sitting on the erg and rowing for these longer periods of time.

[RWAGR]

Do you use liquid chalk? I definitely recommend that,

I tried it and it really helped (so thank you!) - didn't have any slipping issues for the whole row. Doesn't seem to offer much protection from blisters tho.

[Dangerscouse]

Aerobically this felt fine. I was tired at the end but had more in the tank. The tough part was the hands and general body strain. I think that's a question of getting used to sitting on the erg and rowing for these longer periods of time.

Good. You'll adapt to the strain, both due to physical adaptions and mentally accepting it as something that isn't as bad as you think it is the next time.

Your mind is a very powerful forecasting machine, and it has a tendency to always be pessimistic and try to protect you. When you can alter that way of thinking, you can unlock another level of performance. The discomfort may still feel horrible, but when you can acknowledge that it could be worse / used to be worse, it becomes a bit more bearable.

Your hands take a bit longer to adapt and callous, but that will also happen. I tried tape on the handle, and it didn't feel as good as tape on the problem fingers, but you might be different.

Make sure you also test out different types of nutrition. SIS gels gave me stomach ache, but High 5 gels & Tailwind powders were great, although I generally relied on 50/50 diluted fruit juice (OJ & mango juice was a favourite) along with a big pinch of salt and spoonful of sugar.

[GlennUk]

re the handle, i tried a few things (although not Stu's liquid chalk) I use tubular bandage on the handle, and use whilst fabric plaster type tape to hold it in place. The Longest i have rowed was 11.5hrs, and only found i had slight soreness on the tips of both little fingers where i used plasters.

[RWAGR]

Another benchmark today as I prepare for my first FM attempt on 26th March.

60 min PB of 15,603. Obliterated former PB from 2021 by 300 metres. Felt strong throughout and was targeting 15,500 but in the last 6 min I felt I had something left in my empty tank so I just went for it and left it all out on the field. Again, I'm hoping this bodes well for a comfortably sub 3 hour FM, although I'm aware it's a different beast and won't know how I respond to the last 10k of a FM physically or mentally until I'm in it.

Splits for 60' PB:

1:00:00.0 15,603m 1:55.3 228 1084 24
6:00.0 1,550m 1:56.1 223 1069 24
12:00.0 1,541m 1:56.8 220 1055 24
18:00.0 1,542m 1:56.7 220 1057 24
24:00.0 1,548m 1:56.2 223 1066 24
30:00.0 1,547m 1:56.3 222 1064 24
36:00.0 1,553m 1:55.9 225 1073 24
42:00.0 1,556m 1:55.6 226 1078 25
48:00.0 1,563m 1:55.1 229 1088 24
54:00.0 1,564m 1:55.0 230 1090 24
1:00:00.0 1,640m 1:49.7 265 1211 26