Ranger's training thread

[Carl Watts]

cute legs though!

For a Chicken.

[chgoss]

o.k., o.k.

No more "intentions," or promises.

I'll just show up and row at BIRC and WIRC.

See you there!

ranger

QFT

[Citroen]

o.k., o.k.

No more "intentions," or promises.

I'll just show up and row at BIRC and WIRC.

See you there!

ranger

QFT

There's no truth in any of the crap that Ranger writes. I wish him the best of luck for BIRC (he may fly 5000 km, he may warm up, he won't win) and the CRASH-Bs (won't turn up again) but will be laughing like a hyena when he fails to get anywhere close to 6:16, 6:20, 6:40 or whatever his current virtual PB is this week.

[macroth]

Tennis players, Rich?

"
"My serve worked well. Hopefully, I'll continue like this," Nadal said. "My serve is not my best shot, but I always try hard to keep improving. I know if I want to have chances to win here -- not just this year, but any year -- I need to serve really well."

Asked if he has been focusing on making his serve better this summer, Nadal replied with a smile: "All my life, I worked on my serve. Not this summer, all my life."

[ranger]

Truth will out.

Talking of which, how did your 2k trial go today?

I'm thinking somewhere around the 6:45 mark. A mere paddle for a sub-6:20 man like you, eh?

You don't have to do any 2K trials, or even any fast rowing, to know exactly where you are with you rowing, once you are fully sharpened.

Just row a comfortable UT2 piece at 22 spm and 75% HRR.

That tells the story.

I suspect that Byron does UT2 @ 22 spm at about 2:16 pace.

So what is he?

An 8:04 man.

Lancs, you said you were doing UT2 @ 22 spm at 1:55 right now.

As we mentioned, that means that, right now, you are a 6:40 man.

If you get down to 1:51, you'll be a sub-6:30 man, as you used to be.

And so forth.

If you do 1:49 @ 22 spm at 75% HRR, as I do, you are a sub-6:20 man.

If you do 1:46 @ 22 spm, which I have been reaching now from time to time, you are a 6:04 man. You are rowing perfectly: 13 SPI

These paces that you do at 75% HRR and 22 spm are just measuring your natural stroking power, your SPI.

Everyone the same age and weight rows at pretty much the same rate, given the same distance.

So, the rower with the highest natural stroking power wins.

If you have a high natural stroking power, you are effective and efficient.

And in rowing, that's all she wrote.

Everyone who is anyone tries hard, gives sit their all, is diligent in practice, puts in the meters, sharpens hard, gets ready to race, etc. All of that doesn't have any bearing on who is fast and who not.

Of course, this isn't just the case for the erg.

The same thing is true on the water.

You don't have to row fast to know that you are fast OTW.

You are fast when, at a comfortable distance rating, like 22 spm, your boat _leaps_ along at over 10 MPS: the shell sings and the bubbles dance in your wake.

You just row easily, listening for singing and watching the bubbles on parade.

ranger

[hjs]

Truth will out.

Talking of which, how did your 2k trial go today?

I'm thinking somewhere around the 6:45 mark. A mere paddle for a sub-6:20 man like you, eh?

6.45 no way, he can do that now.

[hjs]

Personally I dont think ranger will ever post a training result.

I suspect you're right on this. As far as I'm aware, he's never posted a single training/timed result other than his 2ks. I guess now that his 5k, for example, is around the 17:45 mark he won't ever post another as it's just not that impressive. Pretty sad really....

he did show a FM row. But it was so much slower then he told at forehand that from then on never did it again. 2.07/210 av ???

[ranger]

You do not maintain the paces you claim for any substantial distance on the water.. You approach is to add extra wattage at the catch and hope for the best with inferior technique. Result.. short (inconsequential) bursts of speed.

Yes, I _do_ maintain the paces I claim for substantial distances OTW.

Sure, being effective at the catch helps a lot, as I have discovered lately rowing both OTW and off.

Think what you want.

The proof is in the pudding.

If you go along OTW, 2:10 @ 22 spm, as I do now, and you are 60 years old, as I am now, you are fast, _very_ fast.

Happy to come out to the Connecticut and just row alongside you, 2:10 @ 22 spm, for 20K, day after day, for a couple of weeks.

How about next June?

Even at 18 seconds per 500m over erg times, 2:10 @ 22 spm is like 1:52 @ 22 spm on the erg.

I know that _you_ can't do that, I can do it easy as pie.

I am now doing 1:49 @ 22 spm on the erg, sometimes getting to as fast as 1:46.

Excuse me, but that is stroking _very_ well.

ranger

[ranger]

BRW, OTErg, someone who rows 6:24 for 2K pulls _twice_ the wattage (400 watts) of someone who pulls 8:00 for 2K (200 watts).

If both rowers pull at 32 spm for that 2K, the first rower is pulling 12.5 SPI, the second, 6.25 SPI.

I suspect that Byron pulls about 6.25 SPI on the erg.

In other words, he doesn't understand leverage at all.

He is missing what it is to row well--entirely.

ranger

[hjs]

BRW, OTErg, someone who rows 6:24 for 2K pulls _twice_ the wattage (400 watts) of someone who pulls 8:00 for 2K (200 watts).

If both rowers pull at 32 spm for that 2K, the first rower is pulling 12.5 SPI, the second, 6.25 SPI.

Iranger

Nonsens.

If the first rower is 120 kg and the second 60 kg they pull exactly the same.

[macroth]

You don't have to do any 2K trials, or even any fast rowing, to know exactly where you are with you rowing, once you are fully sharpened.

Just row a comfortable UT2 piece at 22 spm and 75% HRR.

That tells the story.

...

If you do 1:49 @ 22 spm at 75% HRR, as I do, you are a sub-6:20 man.

...

ranger

Tell us, ranger, how long are your comfortable UT2 pieces these days? A few minutes? Ten? 2k? 3k? When you need to take a break (since that's what you do, RWB), what is the nature of the discomfort that forces you to stop? Is it because your HR is going over 75% HRR? Or do you need a glass of water, to go the bathroom, to scratch your back, to type an idiotic post on an Internet message board? Why take breaks at all in an easy, comfortable UT2 piece?

[lancs]

Just row a comfortable UT2 .

<snip>

If you do 1:49 @ 22 spm at 75% HRR, as I do, you are a sub-6:20

As the previous poster has pointed out to you, your 'UT2' paces are not reasonably comparable to any other training plan whether it be Wolverine or Interactive, given that you have to take so many breaks to remain at your alleged UT2 HR level. We know this to be true because, for example, you cannot row 10k @22, 1:49 pace at any HR, let alone UT2. Again, I think it's important to clarify your lies...

Until you cease your RWB routine, you'll continue to get slower...

[mikvan52]

You do not maintain the paces you claim for any substantial distance on the water.. You approach is to add extra wattage at the catch and hope for the best with inferior technique. Result.. short (inconsequential) bursts of speed.

Yes, I _do_ maintain the paces I claim for substantial distances OTW.

... and these distances are?....................

Here:
You like RWB workouts..
Try this otw rwb

http://concept2.co.uk/forum/blog.php?u=7679&b=77231

2k, 1k, 1k
done in twenty two total minutes
It would be interesting to you and everyone else to see what you gat at these "substantial distances"...

It should be clear (to most): That if you cannot maintain 2:00-2:05 pace for short pieces like this in the fall of 2010, there is no way you are going to maintain them for 5k in the fall of 2011 when you threaten to sully the waters of the beloved Charles River

Time is running out for both of Rich,,, you're virtually 60 years old... You cannot wait 5 years to "learn to row" as you did in the past five.... FIve long years that yielded what? ... just a lot of posts here, ===> no records.

Yes, you can get Brian Bailey's mark... by a second or two... Is that enough for you?

[ranger]

Just row a comfortable UT2 .

<snip>

If you do 1:49 @ 22 spm at 75% HRR, as I do, you are a sub-6:20

As the previous poster has pointed out to you, your 'UT2' paces are not reasonably comparable to any other training plan whether it be Wolverine or Interactive, given that you have to take so many breaks to remain at your alleged UT2 HR level. We know this to be true because, for example, you cannot row 10k @22, 1:49 pace at any HR, let alone UT2. Again, I think it's important to clarify your lies...

Until you cease your RWB routine, you'll continue to get slower...

My UT work is now done.

I now do 1:49 @ 22 spm at UT2.

So I am right on my target.

1:49 is UT2 for a 6:16 2K.

118 df.

1:49 @ 22 spm is now pulling pretty easily for me, too.

That's 12 SPI.

When I race a 2K, I'll probably pull 12.5 SPI.

For AT work, I now need to do 2K repeats in a rate pyramid, at 12.5 SPI, pushing the rate up to 29 spm from 25 spm.

Pulling at 12.5 SPI...

At 25 spm, I go 1:43.

At 26 spm, I go 1:42

At 27 spm, I go 1:41

At 28 spm, I go 1:40.

At 29 spm, I go 1:39.

When I am repeated 2Ks at 1:39, I will be at my AT target.

4 x 2K @ 1:39 predicts a 6:16 2K.

For me, these AT 1:39 2Ks, done at 29 spm, will all be 55s lwt WR rows, even though I am a few months shy of 60.

When I race a 2K (at TR), instead of just doing AT repeats, I suspect that I'll rate 34 spm.

12.5 SPI @ 34 spm is 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

Each training band is about five seconds per 500m.

If your AT pace is 1:39, your TR pace is 1:34.

ranger

[ranger]

I know these are harsh words

No, they aren't harsh.

They are kind and well intended.

They're just wrong.

Oh well.

That's your problem, not mine.

ranger