The Two Types of Training

[KevJGK]

Over the last few years, I haven't been training to race, Paul.

I have been training to get better.

Does that mean you have been training to get slower?

That doesn't sound like very clever training to me.

[ranger]

Over the last few years, I haven't been training to race, Paul.

I have been training to get better.

Does that mean you have been training to get slower?

In a 2K?

For right now?

Sure.

All of the competitively significant stages of training for a 2K are done at slower than race pace.

Your 2K is only as good as your 60min row @ 10 MPS.

The benefit you get from the rest of your training (i.e., at race pace and faster) is predictable, and therefore competitively insignificant.

No, training at low or modest paces is not clever.

Training any other way is stupid.

ranger

[ranger]

It would provide more interest than that of the impossible 6:16 stuff you've gone on and on about for all these years.

Now, now.

No reason to jump to conclusions.

A 6:16 2K is not impossible for me until I am fully trained, try it, and fail.

I am not yet fully trained.

I have not yet tried it.

So I have not yet failed.

In fact, as far as I can tell, all sorts of things about my training are going very, very well.

I am pulling 12 SPI for 2K, just naturally.

I have the rates on my distance rowing up to 30 spm.

1:43 @ 29 spm is my step on the 10 MPS ladder. I am doing middle distance rowing at 11 SPI and 10 MPS.

I now have a relaxed and natural FM stroke, 1:48 @ 24 spm, HR at 155 bpm (my anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm).

I am at weight.

I have reduced the drag to 135 df.

My training is daily and high volume.

My overall fitness is sky high.

I have had the best 2K races by quite a margin in the 55s lwts for the last two years, under the 60s lwt WR, without even sharpening for them, and even though I am now 59.

And after next week, I have five months off from work to concentrate exclusively on my rowing, both OTW and off.

It will be interesting to see how I do in my distance trials.

ranger

[ranger]

Post some Long_Term_ Goals_ for your OTW campaign

I am a novice OTW.

I wouldn't know what to say about my goals there.

I am just learning to row.

I didn't have any explicit goals on the erg, either, until I raced a couple of times and was four seconds under the 50s lwt WR, even though I didn't know how to row.

ranger

[bloomp]

Post some Long_Term_ Goals_ for your OTW campaign

I am a novice OTW.

I wouldn't know what to say about my goals there.

I am just learning to row.

I didn't have any explicit goals on the erg, either, until I raced a couple of times and was four seconds under the 50s lwt WR, even though I didn't know how to row.

ranger

You've learned to row for 7 years now! I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months! You are no novice.

[ranger]

You've learned to row for 7 years now! I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months! You are no novice.

Yea, kids learn quickly.

I also learned quickly when I was a kid.

But when I was a kid, I didn't learn to row.

I started rowing OTW when I was 53 years old.

ranger

[ranger]

I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months!

I think it might be harder to take someone like Rocket Roy and, over the next four months, teach him how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K in a 1x at the US Nationals.

No?

ranger

[bloomp]

You've learned to row for 7 years now! I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months! You are no novice.

Yea, kids learn quickly.

I also learned quickly when I was a kid.

But when I was a kid, I didn't learn to row.

I started rowing OTW when I was 53 years old.

ranger

Once you have picked up several sports, it is ridiculously easy to learn another one. I've seen it with my peers and the kids I've started to coach now. Those that have experience in other sports do much better when trying to incorporate the muscle memory of a new sport.

They don't do it perfectly, mind you, but then again your technique is a fair reminder that many people are far from perfect in that respect.

I think it might be harder to take someone like Rocket Roy and, over the next four months, teach him how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K in a 1x at the US Nationals.

No?

ranger

I'm relatively sure that Roy would be a lot easier to coach than you - Mr. Obstinate. Usually it helps when the learner isn't as stubborn as a mule. Roy probably would learn to row OTW very quickly, he's got the right demeanor to take advice from someone that can see something he can't. He is also a very successful athlete in multiple sports.

[Byron Drachman]

Feb 7, 2006: I have just been learning a quality OTW stroke. That project is now complete.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

April 5, 2010: I now row OTW pretty well, plenty well to be competitive with any 60s OTW rowers anywhere.

April 13, 2010: I am a novice OTW. --snip-- I am just learning to row.

[whp4]

I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months!

I think it might be harder to take someone like Rocket Roy and, over the next four months, teach him how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K in a 1x at the US Nationals.

It'd certainly be an easier job than teaching you how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K!

[Nosmo]

I've taught 13 and 14 year olds how to row in a few months!

I think it might be harder to take someone like Rocket Roy and, over the next four months, teach him how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K in a 1x at the US Nationals.

It'd certainly be an easier job than teaching you how to row well enough to beat Mike OTW over 1K!

There is no way you can teach any novice to do that in four months.

[ranger]

[removed]

ranger

[ranger]

Once you have picked up several sports, it is ridiculously easy to learn another one.

I'll talk to you when you are 60.

It would be surprising to me if I ever run into a couple dozen 60-year-olds who can power down a course at some significant speed rating 34 spm (or whatever) for 1K in a 1x.

For a 60-year-old, at least, rowing OTW at high speeds for significant distances in a 1x requires a pretty challenging combination of full-body strength, quickness, skill, agility, balance, flexibility, endurance, aerobic capacity, etc.

No?

ranger

[ranger]

I'm relatively sure that Roy would be a lot easier to coach than you - Mr. Obstinate. Usually it helps when the learner isn't as stubborn as a mule. Roy probably would learn to row OTW very quickly, he's got the right demeanor to take advice from someone that can see something he can't. He is also a very successful athlete in multiple sports.

At 60, how easy you are to coach might have nothing whatsoever to do with mastering a 1x quickly to some high level of proficiency.

The issue is more this:

Can you do it at all?

By the time they are 60, many people have lost much of the full-body strength, quickness, skill, agility, balance, flexibility, endurance, aerobic capacity, etc. they need in order to row well, not to mention the time, inclination, and energy to keep up a significant training regimen.

The rowing stroke, both OTW and off, but especially OTW, is pretty unforgiving about these matters.

You only have to have one (serious) physical flaw/lack--and it's curtains for you in a 1x.

And because of their age, 60-year-olds usually have _all_ of these physical flaws/lacks--in spades.

Many of the 60=year-olds I know groan when they get up out of a chair.

Just resisting gravity is hard for them.



ranger

[bloomp]

Once you have picked up several sports, it is ridiculously easy to learn another one.

I'll talk to you when you are 60.

It would be surprising to me if I ever run into a couple dozen 60-year-olds who can power down a course at some significant speed rating 34 spm (or whatever) for 1K in a 1x.

For a 60-year-old, at least, rowing OTW at high speeds for significant distances in a 1x requires a pretty challenging combination of full-body strength, quickness, skill, agility, balance, flexibility, endurance, aerobic capacity, etc.

No?

ranger

Yet you are not 60, still haven't done this, and probably never will. Regardless of your fitness on the erg, you point out exactly why you could NEVER learn what Mike has done since his teen years.

Being an "autodidact" is useless with OTW rowing. You cannot see yourself perform an extremely complicated motion, and it is imperative you have someone else watching to tell you what to fix. Mix that and your age together, and yes you never will be able to row a 1k at any race-level rating.