The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Do you have any goals

I thought you weren't interested in goals, Mike.

Just performances.

And really not even that.

You are interested in performances that reach goals--now.

To me, that elides everything of interest in this sport.

Training.

Training is an opportunity to get better, before you have reached your goals.

Training is working on your weaknesses.

If you have already reached your goals, there is no need to get better and therefore no need to train, no need to continue to work on your weaknesses.

Your training is over.

ranger

[ranger]

Do you have any goals

This year on the erg, among the 55s lwts, I have both the best performances _and_ the most ambitious goals--by far.

This seems _doubly_ admirable to me.

In my performances, I can't be better than the best.

And life becomes boring and self-satisfied if your goals are only what you can already do.

Your goals should be what you think you can train yourself to do by working on your weaknesses.

ranger

[mikvan52]

As for ranger's "reply" to Nav' Haz:
In sum it remains nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack of Jon's prowess on the erg as a sprinter.
I wonder if RIch is jealous of Jon's speed? THis would explain the ranger-retort... "Yeah, so what, you don't do enough distance work" which Rich has repeated ad naseum.

TO All:
Who here really expects a full set of over-distance TIme Trials w/HR data to be forthcoming (ever) from Rich Cureton?... or any intelligible training data other than broad generalities?
I certainly do not.
In effect, Rich has made a wager with himself that he will not pay.

In the absence of being able to discuss anything about the training leading up to "forthcoming" performances, all that is left to discuss is banter.

So:
All bait; no hook
Keep on trolling, Rich. Ever wonder why you don't catch anything? No 50's age grouips WRs since 2003?
I'll say again: I believe you will get a less prominent one in a year or two: the 60-65 lightweight 2k... But that is a star of dimmer magnitude, isn't it?
Is seems that now you are just waiting to get older.. (wheeew!)

I may not hang around to witness the conclusion of this sad affair....



"A showman’s life,
Is a smokey bar,
And the fevered chase,
Of a tiny star" ~ Jesse Winchester

[mikvan52]

I'd rather gain a better understanding of how to train in and around AT

There is no need to gain any _understanding_ of this.

Thank you for your honesty on this subject.

Clearly, you and I have few common interests. It seems you are here on this thread for the banter then? I see the goals in your signature have vanished. What remains?

Rich's reply to this is to state that I have no goals....

Let me ask the question again.

"What's up now, Rich? Now that your 50-59 goals have vanished from your signature??"

(as for me follow the link below and look at the C2 uk stuff if there's interest... I don't want the subject to be me in this thread. Rich has said that OTW talk is mostly out-of-bounds)

[ranger]

[removed]

[ranger]

As for ranger's "reply" to Nav' Haz:
In sum it remains nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack of Jon's prowess on the erg as a sprinter

Not at all, Mike.

20 x 500m @ 1:34 predicts a 2K @ 1:34/6:16.

But at WIRC at least, Jon pulled 1:37.5/6:30.

The disparity between the two is 14 seconds.

As I have been saying, everyone, I think, gets about a dozen seconds each from distance rowing and hard sharpening.

If Jon could learn to do the distance rowing, and did it regularly, he would regularly pull 6:16.

Right now, his training is unbalanced.

As to being jealous of Jon's sprinting, again, not at all.

Pound for pound and year for year I am much faster than Jon in a sprint.

My sprinting is just as good as my distance rowing.

I'll pull 1:24 for 500m when I am 60.

That will be six seconds under the 60s lwt WR.

Nav is pretty far short of the 50s hwt WR for 500m.

And to be six seconds under that WR, he would have to pull 1:13.5, which is under the Open WR for 500m.

Nope.

I'm not at all jealous of Jon's sprinting.

Why?

My sprinting is just fine.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich: (replying to your 2nd answer)

You never believed or supported all that 6:16/6:28 stuff with anything but banter.
IMO: All the talk was just to get attn.

Was your real goal this year to beat Roy Brook's WR?

BTW: You will never pull 1:24 as a lwt 60-year-old. Such a claim is just a reversion to hyperbole to draw attn to this thread.

What's your 500 at your current weight this week?
Here: I'll give your answer: " I ain't sayin ! " ... good attn getting technique there Rich... I fell for it with my request for a time that will never be forthcoming.

Bye for now: Got to go coach...

[ranger]

You never believed or supported all that 6:16/6:28 stuff with anything but banter.

Not true at all.

My training is coming along great.

I have already achieved my targets for technique and stroking power.

I am at weight--permanently.

And I have built up my overall fitness and training volume to target levels.

I am now rowing right at my distance target, too: 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI, 10 MPS).

So what is there not to like?

The only thing I haven't done is hit my target yet.

But I won't do that until my training is done.

And it is not yet done.

You also provide no support at all for your goal of winning the Head of the Charles.

If you thought about yourself the way you think about me, you couldn't continue to have any goals at all.

If you haven't reached your goal yet, it is not going to happen.

Time to get your mind right, son.

You need a brain fix.

ranger

[ranger]

What's your 500 at your current weight this week?

Who cares?

I am not performing.

I am training.

I am rowing 1:43 @ 29 spm, day after day, K after K.

That's where I am in my training.

I am getting ready for distance trials.

500m is not a weakness for me.

I am great at it.

So why waste my training worrying about it?

Sure, if I were _you_, I would worry about it, given that you can't even row 1:30 for 500m.

That's a _severe_ limitation.

But I'm not you.

I don't have that limitation.

Heck, I can pull 1:30 for 50030.

That's pulling 16 SPI.

No lightweight can pull 1:30 for 500r30 who can't pull well under 6:30 for 2K, perhaps well under 6:20.

ranger

[hjs]

Should that make it the end of the matter?

Heck no.

When I win the bet, I am sure that Henry will pay up.

He was the one who suggested the bet in the first place.

When he turns up wrong, he will just have to face up to his own foolishness--and pay the price.

All nay-sayers are fools.

ranger

I am so looking forward to meeting you (again) in the flesh

[hjs]

Whether it was legal or not is totally irrelevant.

Well then take it to court, and see if they agree with you.

Let's drop this line of repartee..
Agreement would necessitate that we all be gentlemen.
Gentlemen do not not need courts to resolve outcomes of clearly stated wagers.

Indeed Mike Indeed. It was a friendly wager among erging fans. Going to court would be way over the top for something like this. I am sure Rich will have my money when I meet him.

[hjs]

As for ranger's "reply" to Nav' Haz:
In sum it remains nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack of Jon's prowess on the erg as a sprinter.
I wonder if RIch is jealous of Jon's speed? THis would explain the ranger-retort... "Yeah, so what, you don't do enough distance work" which Rich has repeated ad naseum.

TO All:
Who here really expects a full set of over-distance TIme Trials w/HR data to be forthcoming (ever) from Rich Cureton?... or any intelligible training data other than broad generalities?
I certainly do not.
In effect, Rich has made a wager with himself that he will not pay.

In the absence of being able to discuss anything about the training leading up to "forthcoming" performances, all that is left to discuss is banter.

So:
All bait; no hook
Keep on trolling, Rich. Ever wonder why you don't catch anything? No 50's age grouips WRs since 2003?
I'll say again: I believe you will get a less prominent one in a year or two: the 60-65 lightweight 2k... But that is a star of dimmer magnitude, isn't it?
Is seems that now you are just waiting to get older.. (wheeew!)

I may not hang around to witness the conclusion of this sad affair....



"A showman’s life,
Is a smokey bar,
And the fevered chase,
Of a tiny star" ~ Jesse Winchester

The nutty pro will never ever show any result again in his life. Only his "racing" will show his real erging.

[hjs]

What's your 500 at your current weight this week?

Who cares?

I am not performing.

ranger

indeed

[NavigationHazard]

As for ranger's "reply" to Nav' Haz:
In sum it remains nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack of Jon's prowess on the erg as a sprinter

Misattributed quote, yet again. What's bizzare is that the default "quote" command on the Forum lacks the attribution command. You have to add in the quote marks and the name manually.

Not at all, Mike.

20 x 500m @ 1:34 predicts a 2K @ 1:34/6:16.

But at WIRC at least, Jon pulled 1:37.5/6:30.

The disparity between the two is 14 seconds.

Funny thing about that. I had a bad day, probably from allergies to mold in the arena, rowed on diminished breathing and still finished fifth in an event I was never going to win when Miani registered. I'd like to think that trumps registering for two separate races on the day and failing to appear for either.

As I have been saying, everyone, I think, gets about a dozen seconds each from distance rowing and hard sharpening.

If Jon could learn to do the distance rowing, and did it regularly, he would regularly pull 6:16.

Right now, his training is unbalanced.

Another funny thing. You have no idea what I actually do for training day in and day out. Ignorance doesn't stop you from bloviating about it, mind you. In this particular case, the previous session was a continuous 10k OTW r24-28 in about 48 minutes dock-to-dock. With a serious current to contend with in between, plus two bridges and two spins and boat traffic.

As to being jealous of Jon's sprinting, again, not at all.

Pound for pound and year for year I am much faster than Jon in a sprint.

Of course you'd actually have to do one to find out. And what you'd find out is that even with silly weight adjustment I'm faster as a HW than you are as a weighed-in LW.

My sprinting is just as good as my distance rowing.

To the extent they both suck weasel toes, inasmuch as you actually do neither sprinting nor distance rowing.

I'll pull 1:24 for 500m when I am 60.

That will be six seconds under the 60s lwt WR.

Say 'hi' to Elvis when you see him during the row. You won't break 1:32 as a weighed-in LW at age 60 because you actually have no speed.

Nav is pretty far short of the 50s hwt WR for 500m.

Not at all. I smashed the short-course 300m WR by a full second the other day, and was at 1:18 over the 300m without having trained a lick for sprinting.

And to be six seconds under that WR, he would have to pull 1:13.5, which is under the Open WR for 500m.

Nope.

I'm not at all jealous of Jon's sprinting.

Why?

My sprinting is just fine.

So unjealous are you that you've made half a dozen posts this morning trashing me, my training, my results.... Poor little thing. You really like to poop in the sandbox, don't you.

ranger

[ranger]

Backing off from 60min race pace, 1:43 @ 29 spm, I get a nice, comfortable, Level 3 "base pace" 1:45 @ 27 spm with my HR at 160 bpm, a dozen or so bpm below my anaerobic threshold.

_Delighted_ with this.

So, following Mike C., what I need to do now is build these Level 3 rows to 30K until I can do them for that 30K each time out.

135 df.

Setting 5

Stroke feels great--efficient, effective, smooth, relaxed, consistent, stable, etc.

11 SPI, 11 MPS

This is _great_ training for a 60s lwt.

I now have no need to go slower than 1:45 or rate lower than 27 spm.

No more low rate rowing.

The only time I will row at low rates will be to warm up.

My rates for my distance rowing are now confined nicely between 27 spm as a lower bound and 32 spm as an upper bound, a very narrow range.

HR is 160 at 27 spm, 180 at 32 spm, 172 bpm, my anaerobic threshold, at 10 MPS, 1:43 @ 29 spm.

ranger