The Two Types of Training

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mrfit
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mrfit » April 9th, 2010, 3:39 pm

ranger wrote:
mrfit wrote:That lower graph is my 10k PB (38:38)
I'll check it out, but I suspect that my HR would ride steady at about 130 bpm during a 10K @ 1:56 on the erg.

I suppose I would want to do it at about 19 spm.

My anaerobic threshold, top-end UT1, is 172 bpm.

Top-end UT2 is 145 bpm.

What did you rate when you did your 10K pb?

ranger
That would be good rowing for sure!

I think more interesting would be to see what power plot you see rowing at 170bpm over some 6500m.

I rowed at 28spm for that piece.

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johnlvs2run
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by johnlvs2run » April 9th, 2010, 3:41 pm

KevJGK wrote:It would be a waste of time & money trying to recover a gambling debt through the courts.

Should that make it the end of the matter?
Yes.

If you don't want to lose money then don't gamble.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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johnlvs2run
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by johnlvs2run » April 9th, 2010, 3:44 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Let's drop this line of repartee..
Yes, that would be convenient.
Agreement would necessitate that we all be gentlemen.
Gentlemen do not not need courts to resolve outcomes of clearly stated wagers.
Are you saying that you agree with Rich, or that Rich agrees with you.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » April 9th, 2010, 3:45 pm

ranger wrote:
My undocumented, widely bragged about anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.
I'll say it again: Contrary to your assertions: Anaerobic threshold occurs at a HR number.. It also needs to be tested to be proven to be where one estimates it might be.
(ranger has not done this and refuses to do so)

Where's any sustained workout with HR data, Rich? (NOT RACING DATA... JUST A TAXING WORKOUT)

You can't fake IND_V data...

Please provide some so we have something real to talk about in the realm of HR as it applies to you.

Troll-Chum:
"all bait, no hook"

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » April 9th, 2010, 4:00 pm

John Rupp wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:Let's drop this line of repartee..
Yes, that would be convenient.
Agreement would necessitate that we all be gentlemen.
Gentlemen do not not need courts to resolve outcomes of clearly stated wagers.
Are you saying that you agree with Rich, or that Rich agrees with you. (sic)
I assume, John, that you are asking a question.
As a question it seems to be a non sequitur.
The realm of agreement refers to that group of men who are gentlemen.
I leave it to you to decide if RIch is part of that group.
I might add: IMHO: Gentlemen never knowingly contradict themselves.

The facts of the situation were clearly sited by Byron Drachman.


I cannot think that I have anything more to add to this matter. It seems you and I both agree that this is a dead issue. Repeating the history of it has become boring and has nothing to do with "training" on the erg.

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johnlvs2run
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by johnlvs2run » April 9th, 2010, 4:12 pm

mikvan52 wrote:I assume, John, that you are asking a question.
I was making a statement.

Rich does not agree with you, and you apparently don't agree with him either.

The only conclusion left is that you agree with me and that I am the gentleman. :-)
IMHO: Gentlemen never knowingly contradict themselves.
But is your opinion truly humble?
The facts of the situation were clearly sited by Byron Drachman.
But there is no agreement between the parties in question.
It seems you and I both agree that this is a dead issue.
On that, we agree.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

mrfit
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mrfit » April 9th, 2010, 4:34 pm

ranger,

Excuse my anonymity. With all the search engines Googling up everyone's everything, I prefer my online dialogues to be unconnected to my real person. In the real world, I'm in business and prefer my partners and customers (who are quick to Google people to examine them under microscopes) to just know me as we know each other in normal discourse and NOT adding to it some interpretation of how I exchange with others in my personal time on the Internet.

mrfit

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » April 9th, 2010, 4:47 pm

If anyone still reads this for information about training:

Let's take look at the word "anaerobic" as it relates to the term "anaerobic threshold".

Definition:
adjective:
relating to, involving, or requiring an absence of free oxygen.

Now ask yourself: Can it be that the rate a heart beats completely determines the availability of oxygen to the tissues in one's body? Can a rate (heart beats per minute) determine the concentration of a gas or it's availability all by itself.

To say "my anaerobic threshold is (a certain number) of heart beats in a minute. Is equivalent to saying: "My martini became "dry" in a specific length of time because I poured the gin into the shaker very fast.(without regard to the amount of vermouth that was in the shaker when I started)"

Anyone with layman's appreciation of anatomy & physiology can see the fallacy of Prof. Cureton's position. Leaving mindless banter aside, no one can logically maintain that anaerobic threshold is simply a rate.

Circumlocution exposed! ~~~~ Poetry fails in the face of knowledge when it comes to the realm of exercise physiology... :|

Hope this helps those who are looking for clarity on this subject.
I'd love it if someone more knowledgeable on this subject would help me with my martini! :D

ranger logic may shake some but it doesn't stir me
Last edited by mikvan52 on April 9th, 2010, 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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johnlvs2run
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by johnlvs2run » April 9th, 2010, 5:04 pm

mikvan52 wrote:I'd love it if someone more knowledgeable on this subject would help me with my martini! :D
Looks like you've had too many already. :shock:
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » April 9th, 2010, 5:23 pm

John Rupp wrote:
someone who tries to remain a gentleman wrote:IMHO: Gentlemen never knowingly contradict themselves.
But is your opinion truly humble?
:D (point taken)

Note I didn't say IMTHO.. :wink:
I'll leave it to gentlemen to decide whether I am humble or not.

BTW: Can we leave the distraction of banter aside for now? I'd rather gain a better understanding of how to train in and around AT than have a fake discussion about humility.

How about you?

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NavigationHazard
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by NavigationHazard » April 9th, 2010, 6:29 pm

Stay tuned for 5-10 minutes,
67 MH 6' 6"

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Byron Drachman
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by Byron Drachman » April 9th, 2010, 6:35 pm

While we are waiting for Nav's posting, back to the topic of paying debts:

http://www.urlesque.com/2008/11/07/brok ... -a-spider/

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NavigationHazard
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by NavigationHazard » April 9th, 2010, 6:53 pm

Uploading pics now....
67 MH 6' 6"

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mikvan52
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » April 9th, 2010, 7:02 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:While we are waiting for Nav's posting, back to the topic of paying debts:

http://www.urlesque.com/2008/11/07/brok ... -a-spider/
:lol:
Here I try to get back on the subject of training and you turn around and make it clear to me where the fun really is!
Got to hand it to you, Byron! B)

After all, 52,585 views in 60 days of this thread cannot mean that people are interested in training! I wonder if [Bot] views add to the tally? :D

I wonder if we can get the view total up to average 1k/day???? Were currently at 876! (36 an hour!! 24/7!).. Now there's a rate... The rangerphobic threshold

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NavigationHazard
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by NavigationHazard » April 9th, 2010, 7:06 pm

Okay....

20 x 500m r34/ 3:00 passive rest @ 1:33.4, under nominal threshold.

Image
Image
Image

HR from external reading (initial average over 20-5 seconds remaining in rest interval; peak average over first 5-20 seconds of rest interval). That's because my transmitter belt battery needs replacing.

01] 1:33.5 initial HR 72 peak HR 140
02] 1:33.6 initial HR 88 peak HR 148
03] 1:33.9 initial HR 100 peak HR 152
04] 1:33.6 initial HR 100 peak HR 152
05] 1:33.6 initial HR 100 peak HR 152
06] 1:33.6 initial HR 108 peak HR 156
07] 1:33.5 initial HR 108 peak HR 156
08] 1:33.7 initial HR 104 peak HR 154
09] 1:33.7 initial HR 112 peak HR 156
10] 1:33.6 initial HR 108 peak HR 160
11] 1:33.6 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
12] 1:33.6 initial HR 104 peak HR 156
13] 1:33.6 initial HR 108 peak HR 160
14] 1:33.5 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
15] 1:33.5 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
16] 1:34.0 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
17] 1:33.6 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
18] 1:33.3 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
19] 1:33.4 initial HR 112 peak HR 160
20] 1:31.0 initial HR 116 peak HR 164

Averages: 1:33.4 pace. Average initial HR 105.3 bpm, average peak HR 156.2 bpm. I reckon threshold right now to be around 160-62 bpm. I'll confess to not bothering to hold rating quite constant.
67 MH 6' 6"

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