Pace Curves

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
M. Podolsky
500m Poster
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Joined: October 1st, 2008, 10:57 am

Re: Curved rates

Post by M. Podolsky » November 13th, 2008, 9:09 pm

M. Podolsky wrote:Obviously if you can maximize distance per stroke and strokes per minute at the same time, you'll achieve your best distance per minute.

Has anyone done this kind of experiment? It certainly seems like something that would have come up already. If not, perhaps someone can propose a better experimental framework, and we can all submit our data and produce some ripping curves. After that we can find the inflection point for long distance rows (that is, the point at which reducing the power per stroke while maintaining a base stroke rate becomes the most effective strategy).
Well that was a bad idea. Today I did 7 intervals of 80 seconds, with the PM3 set for 20 second splits. I increased the rate by 3spm in each interval, starting at 21 and ending at 36. I ignored the first 20 second split in each interval, and took the best of the 3 remaining splits (which was the second in most cases), which gave me the following chart (DPM= distance per minute, SPM = strokes per minute). Obviously, while the distance per stroke goes down as the rate goes up, you'd need the lungs of a horse before you'd reach the point where increasing the rate would reduce your overall speed.

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Nosmo
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Post by Nosmo » November 13th, 2008, 10:32 pm

The problem with your experiment is that the optimal spm is dependent on the distance/speed of the piece. So if you want to maximize a 100m piece you may be capable of doing it at a 1:20 pace but you may have to do it at about 45 spm. To do a half marathon, maybe you can do a 1:58 but you would need to do it at 25-26 spm. Also the optimal spm will vary from day to day and from the beginning of the piece to the end. So if you do a half marathon at a constant 1:58, you may be best off starting at a 22 and finishing at a 26.

If you train over a broad range of spm and distance per stoke your efficiency won't change with small variations in spm. So if your 2K is optimal at about 32 spm, your time is not likely to be very different at 30 or 34.

M. Podolsky
500m Poster
Posts: 76
Joined: October 1st, 2008, 10:57 am

Post by M. Podolsky » November 13th, 2008, 11:47 pm

Nosmo wrote:The problem with your experiment is that the optimal spm is dependent on the distance/speed of the piece..
I was hoping I would find an optimal rate for sprints, which I would then adjust based on distance. I used 80 second intervals, but most of the points on the graph represent 20 seconds of effort after a 20 second start, so I think my results suggest that for a very short test the limiting factor is rate, not form. Over the last month I've been doing a better mix of low rate distance work and sprint intervals. The low rate work has definitely improved my form, so now I get more meters per stroke at a given rate. And the interval work improves the cardio and strength, so I can complete a given distance at a higher rate. But I think my experiment tells me that there is not really an optimal rate, no matter what the distance, because you can always increase your speed by increasing your rate. In other words, the best rate is the highest rate you can maintain, but that doesn't mean you should avoid the low rate training, because it will improve your distance per stroke regardless of rate (for humanly possible rates). Which is why this was a naive idea in the first place.

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