New rower, hi.

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
DanielJ
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by DanielJ » January 23rd, 2015, 3:24 pm

Luthor1 wrote:I did 8 x 500 @ 1min41 today with 1min inactive rests in between. Felt pretty good, last 2 were very hard, but first 6 it was flicking to 1m40 more than it was flicking to 1min42

I seem to be getting better quite quickly, is there any way to predict how far I could go? I mean I've still got plenty of fat to lose, and only been using the rowing machine in anger for about 4 weeks really.

Also, how do I get those funky PB's in my signature? Saves me keep bumping this thread to say what I'm doing??

Cheers
Andy
Probably this: http://www.c2ctc.com/make_image.php

Then it generates an image code which you can paste into your "signature" in the User Control Panel *points to the top left*.
30, 6'2 (1.88m); 179 lb (81 kg)
Learning, improving, getting stronger, and wanting more.
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Recent tests: 1:41.7/500 for 1k; 1:34.9/500 for 2 minutes

Luthor1
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by Luthor1 » January 23rd, 2015, 4:02 pm

Awesome thanks!!

Andy
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hjs
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 23rd, 2015, 4:35 pm

Luthor1 wrote:I did 8 x 500 @ 1min41 today with 1min inactive rests in between. Felt pretty good, last 2 were very hard, but first 6 it was flicking to 1m40 more than it was flicking to 1min42

I seem to be getting better quite quickly, is there any way to predict how far I could go? I mean I've still got plenty of fat to lose, and only been using the rowing machine in anger for about 4 weeks really.

Also, how do I get those funky PB's in my signature? Saves me keep bumping this thread to say what I'm doing??

Cheers
Andy
Indeed good,

No idea where you can go, but 6.30 seems not very far and 6.20 seems likely. Have you done much sports before
.
At the moment mid 6.40

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by Luthor1 » January 23rd, 2015, 5:47 pm

Hjs,

I am a bit funny, never done any competitive sport but I feel I have something in me. Always been fat, always, I have been up and down the weight for 8 years, up to 18 stone, down to 13.5. Did running to lose weight then got injured, shin splints, so stopped and put weight back on. Always feels like I have a good engine inside, lots of energy in me and I can go until I collapse then I started the gym in November, got a general trainer who helps me with balanced diet and weight training and left my cardio up to me so got on the rower and just love it

I like numbers so seeing the times come down motivates me a lot to do more, really I just do some long hard cardio then some intervals and some weights that's it nothing properly planned. When I get my weight down maybe I should get a rowing coach?

I know I love it now so I want to do well, and I will be 40 next year so maybe i can race? Give me a year to train up for it? I am very competitive and I will go quicker if you put someone next to me :)

Andy
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by rhr » January 24th, 2015, 1:42 am

Andy - well done you're making great progress.

With that said I'm not as optimistic as Henry. Having broken 18:00 for 5k after 7 weeks on the rower my times improved but not to the levels Henry mentioned. In fairness you may be different - we shall see. If you are serious about the weight loss and competition you could do something I stopped just short of but something you could reach and that's lightweight. At 5'11 you may well get there, I'm 6'3 and I couldn't quite make it. Rowing a 6:30 / 2k as a 40 LWT would be a very competitive time. Dropping body fat shouldn't impair your times materially.

Good luck.

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hjs
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 24th, 2015, 2:19 am

rhr wrote:Andy - well done you're making great progress.

With that said I'm not as optimistic as Henry. Having broken 18:00 for 5k after 7 weeks on the rower my times improved but not to the levels Henry mentioned. In fairness you may be different - we shall see. If you are serious about the weight loss and competition you could do something I stopped just short of but something you could reach and that's lightweight. At 5'11 you may well get there, I'm 6'3 and I couldn't quite make it. Rowing a 6:30 / 2k as a 40 LWT would be a very competitive time. Dropping body fat shouldn't impair your times materially.

Good luck.
I look at current rate of improvement and current weight status. Now I see the ops stats I am less sure, but 6.30 seems like a given. From 6.5x to 141, that means that 500 set, so simple it, is very fast progress, that does not stop all of a sudden Rodney. You where much more trained already, for improvement a less good startingpoint :wink:

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by Luthor1 » January 24th, 2015, 4:11 am

6:30? That would be amazing if I could see that!!!

LWT I never thought of that? At 98.6kg and 20.6% fat, I am over 78kg lean mass, even without any fat. This means I would need to lose some muscle maybe down to 70kg lean with 5kg fat? That would be 8% bodyfat. Is that ok? How much time is that 7kg of muscle bringing, or is it just working against the fat and making my heart and lungs work for nothing?

I am thinking even today I could take off 12kg of pure fat without losing muscle, this is just time for free? How much? Nobody knows but maybe can guess, is that what you are doing HJS? To say maybe 6:30 because of the fat I carry?

last time i was 75kg was probably 25 years ago!

King regards
Andy
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by rhr » January 24th, 2015, 4:17 am

Henry, the OP is 5'11 turning 40 and by the time he gets to 10-12% BF he will weigh around 82-85kgs. That will make him a fairly short, light heavyweight. Plus 500m intervals are mostly anaerobic and don't translate well into 2k times. You can get away with reduced fitness and extra weight doing 500's.

How many 40 yr old 5'11 rowers that weigh 82-85kgs row a 6:20 / 2k? The only guys around that height and vaguely similar weight that do that are world class lightweights and a couple of exceptional guys in the CTC who weigh just above LWT.

I agree 6:30 seems doable, in which case I'm suggesting Andy has a crack at LWT if he can (6%-8% BF) as that would be a competitive time in that weight category.

Andy you never lose just fat when you drop weight. Usually around 80% of the loss is fat. If you bulk up muscle at the same time then it's possible. There are also dehydration techniques one can use to "make weight" where you don't need to be 75kgs exactly, you can be heavier and lose water weight.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 24th, 2015, 6:08 am

rhr wrote:Henry, the OP is 5'11 turning 40 and by the time he gets to 10-12% BF he will weigh around 82-85kgs. That will make him a fairly short, light heavyweight. Plus 500m intervals are mostly anaerobic and don't translate well into 2k times. You can get away with reduced fitness and extra weight doing 500's.

How many 40 yr old 5'11 rowers that weigh 82-85kgs row a 6:20 / 2k? The only guys around that height and vaguely similar weight that do that are world class lightweights and a couple of exceptional guys in the CTC who weigh just above LWT.

I agree 6:30 seems doable, in which case I'm suggesting Andy has a crack at LWT if he can (6%-8% BF) as that would be a competitive time in that weight category.

Andy you never lose just fat when you drop weight. Usually around 80% of the loss is fat. If you bulk up muscle at the same time then it's possible. There are also dehydration techniques one can use to "make weight" where you don't need to be 75kgs exactly, you can be heavier and lose water weight.
The 6.20 was optimistic, I did not know he was 40. But erging is age friendly. The odds are against him. 6.20 is indeed very fast for that age.
The weight thing, if he handles it smart, loosing the fat will make him faster. So that is only a plus. Doing it wrong with not enough protein etc will also cost muscle. That would be wrong ofcourse.
The 8x500 on 1 min is no matter what always close to 2 pace. Yes anaerobic, but a lot less compared to the more common longer rest. If he pulled 141 flat, he can pull 6.45 now.
I don,t talk about lightweight. I find that utter nonsence. If he needs to overly loose weight to get to sub 75 it indeed would no help. But again, that 75 is just a number.
I disagree about the muscle loss. Yes he will loose muscle, but not the rowing ones. Remember, he is not well trained, so his body will adapt even. The non rowing muscle will lessen some.

Weightwise also remember, most people are not lean, at races heavies I see are often overweight. In the sence above 10%. So they could be leaner. Toprowers are often 90/100kg around 193/2.00.
A lean 5.11 with 82/85 kg is not weak.
Last weak at the euro s I saw both Paul B, 10kg overweight in my view. And andy J, even more overweight. They both leave time on the table with that weight. I talk about 20/25% fat they carry.
If I look at myself. 93 at 6.1 think 12% fat now. I could be 90kg. If I loose my non rowing muscle a bit I could be 85/87 it would not make me slower on the 2k.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 24th, 2015, 6:10 am

Luthor1 wrote:6:30? That would be amazing if I could see that!!!

LWT I never thought of that? At 98.6kg and 20.6% fat, I am over 78kg lean mass, even without any fat. This means I would need to lose some muscle maybe down to 70kg lean with 5kg fat? That would be 8% bodyfat. Is that ok? How much time is that 7kg of muscle bringing, or is it just working against the fat and making my heart and lungs work for nothing?

I am thinking even today I could take off 12kg of pure fat without losing muscle, this is just time for free? How much? Nobody knows but maybe can guess, is that what you are doing HJS? To say maybe 6:30 because of the fat I carry?

last time i was 75kg was probably 25 years ago!

King regards
Andy
I don,t think lightweight is for you. 85 orso seems ok. The fat now is just dead weight, plus your current rate of improvement tells me 6.30 is on. With hard work though.

Re training, at the moment focussing on 5k speed will yield the best results or you. Long enough to improve your fitness and short enough to improve your 2k. Shoot for 17.30 in 12 months :D

Interval work like 5x1500 and 4x2k are great for this. Rest 5 min between sets. Pace 6/8 seconds above current 2k level to start of with. Always make the last rep the fastest, if not you went out too fast.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by Luthor1 » January 24th, 2015, 6:48 am

Well I am 39 today but will be 40 next year when I hope to be racing so I have the year for serious training.

17:30 for the 5k is 1:45 per 500 pace. I will do a full 5k at top speed today or tomorrow to see where I am, the 18:17 was done while I was going for a 30 min and I went off to quick, but I think I can beat 18:17 already then we will know where I am for 5k

Thanks for the training advice I will start doing that now, keep up the protein and see where I can get to!

I don't have to decide about light weight yet do I, can get to 85 kg 10% and see where I am then?

Thanks!! Very exciting

Andy
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hjs
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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 24th, 2015, 7:09 am

Luthor1 wrote:Well I am 39 today but will be 40 next year when I hope to be racing so I have the year for serious training.

17:30 for the 5k is 1:45 per 500 pace. I will do a full 5k at top speed today or tomorrow to see where I am, the 18:17 was done while I was going for a 30 min and I went off to quick, but I think I can beat 18:17 already then we will know where I am for 5k

Thanks for the training advice I will start doing that now, keep up the protein and see where I can get to!

I don't have to decide about light weight yet do I, can get to 85 kg 10% and see where I am then?

Thanks!! Very exciting

Andy
Good luck :D

I am just making general observations, just based on the, limited info, I see.

Just enjoy it and do for your health. If reach 85kg at 10%, that would be great. 10kg less is a different league. Not much point thinking about that now. 85 sounds like a nice goal.
Also don,t over race yourself. Keep training and not racing it all. Your times will fall quick enough.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by rhr » January 24th, 2015, 8:14 am

Again I disagree with Henry that talk of LWT is "utter nonsense". Top LWT rowers are usually 5'11 - 6'1, around your height. Get down to 10% BF and see what your weight is at that level. If you lose some non rowing muscle along with fat (as I did) you may be a lot closer to LWT than 85 kgs. Then you can make the decision for yourself.

Where Henry and I do agree is that getting down to 10% is a great idea for general health. Rowing is a fantastic sport, however, make sure you don't over train and burn out. Enjoy yourself. As you lose BF, improve your technique and train there are "easy" gains to enjoy. The crunch comes when your performance plateaus and all future gains are hard fought.

Good luck.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by hjs » January 24th, 2015, 8:47 am

:D

Luckily rowing is the only sport where that stupid idea of weightclasses caught on :D . Apart from fighting and lifting sports. But its not for nothing the heavyweight classes are the ones with the most prestige. I much more look at absolute result.
There is often not much difference in build among rowers, just height. Heavy s :evil: are simply taller and therefor weigh more.
At 98 around 20%, 75 is very far away. Only if that % is off 75 seems maybe possible.

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Re: New rower, hi.

Post by Jules » January 24th, 2015, 1:11 pm

Luthor1 wrote:Well I am 39 today but will be 40 next year when I hope to be racing so I have the year for serious training.

17:30 for the 5k is 1:45 per 500 pace. I will do a full 5k at top speed today or tomorrow to see where I am, the 18:17 was done while I was going for a 30 min and I went off to quick, but I think I can beat 18:17 already then we will know where I am for 5k

Thanks for the training advice I will start doing that now, keep up the protein and see where I can get to!

I don't have to decide about light weight yet do I, can get to 85 kg 10% and see where I am then?

Thanks!! Very exciting

Andy
Andy:

What is intersting about your times is they seem a little backwards to me. By that, what I mean is you would typically expect a rower who is well into the heavyweight division such as yourself to excel more at the power distances and less at endurance distances, especially given your relative lack of time spent on endurance training.

Your times seem just the opposite. After just a few weeks of rowing, your 30 minute meter total is quite remarkable, placing you solidly in the 90th percentile for heavyweights your age in the 2015 rankings. On the other hand, your 1K time is in the 50th+ percentile. These times suggest, at this point, you have more endurance than power. Again, that seems topsy-turvy for a heavyweight with little endurance training.

In any event, given this, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to see you drop down into the mid to low 6 minute range for the 2k.

Good luck, and keep up the great work!
Vitals: male; mid-40s; lightweight; 5'10"; sedentary lifestyle ended 10/14

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