Tennis elbow and resuming activity

[nimbuscile]

I think I have a tennis elbow as well (or at least some very irritated tendons). Had it since last summer after I cut a lot of bushes in my garden. All advices say it's good to keep moving, but not so much that it hurts. I kept rowing (although a bit less hard) and my pain didn't get any worse from that.
ps. It still hurts 8 months later (but much better manageble now) and I understand that's pretty normal. So you might be in for a long recovery..

I had my first row this week using 'no arms' (or at least as much as it's possible not to use your arms). Felt very odd and was weirdly difficult to do but the plus side was I didn't feel any effects from it so I think I'll keep doing that for a bit. The BPP is out of the window at least! In the words of The Specials, I think I'd done too much and pushed an already well-worked joint (drumming) beyond its limits. I've paused all drumming activity going forward (which is killing me, but needs must etc.) so hopefully with the no arms rowing and wearing a compress strap when busy, I'll be able to get on top of it. I'm seeing my therapist next week and will ask her to take a view and give her a break from hurting me in the usual areas!

[JaapvanE]

Questionnaire:
[..]

You take every opportunity to show you do not get the point. This questionnaire is ridiculous.

Yeah, there are a bazillion biomechanical improvements one can make. That isn't the question.

Big question that is structurally ignored here: is it the truly underlying cause of the issue? As most point out: it isn't with proper technique, otherwise most people here people would be dropping like flies, competitors would seize the opportunity to differentiate from the market leader and there would be a booming post-sales market. None of that is happening.

Addressing the key question here from OP: focus on technique, look at your dragfactor and don't make too big changes to training volume in one period. Mechanical changes only adres the symptoms, but not the underlying cause, and thus are only helpful to a point.

[reuben]

I've paused all drumming activity going forward (which is killing me, but needs must etc.) so hopefully with the no arms rowing and wearing a compress strap when busy, I'll be able to get on top of it. I'm seeing my therapist next week and will ask her to take a view and give her a break from hurting me in the usual areas!

Given that you have at least two activities which may be causing or exacerbating this issue, it's difficult to say which one is the likely culprit (even on the internet ). It could well be that no single activity is to blame, but the repeated stress of multiple activities not giving your body time to rest and relax. It's good that you're seeing a PT.

[Sakly]

Questionnaire:
[..]

You take every opportunity to show you do not get the point. This questionnaire is ridiculous.

Yeah, there are a bazillion biomechanical improvements one can make. That isn't the question.

Big question that is structurally ignored here: is it the truly underlying cause of the issue? As most point out: it isn't with proper technique, otherwise most people here people would be dropping like flies, competitors would seize the opportunity to differentiate from the market leader and there would be a booming post-sales market. None of that is happening.

Addressing the key question here from OP: focus on technique, look at your dragfactor and don't make too big changes to training volume in one period. Mechanical changes only adres the symptoms, but not the underlying cause, and thus are only helpful to a point.

Thx. I only didn't want to waste time to write this again.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is helping the topicstarter.
May I suggest we (you) take the discussion about rigid or split handles elsewhere and try to help TS with the questions he's having?

Ontopic: I think I have a tenniselbow as well (or at least some very irritated tendons). Had it since last summer after I cut a lot of bushes in my garden. All advices say it's good to keep moving, but not so much that it hurts.
I kept rowing (although a bit less hard) and my pain didn't get any worse from that.
ps. It still hurts 8 months later (but much better manageble now) and I understand that's pretty normal. So you might be in for a long recovery..

That's a fair comment. It has definitely taken a different path than it was at the start of the post.

I agree with keeping moving, but within reason, and use your intuition to know what works or what doesn't. Tendons and ligaments are notoriously slow at recovering due to the limited blood flow.

[Slidewinder]

Yeah, there are a bazillion biomechanical improvements one can make. That isn't the question.

Yes, it is the question. The OP does not need a 'bazillion' bio-mechanical improvements to the equipment. He only needs one. He, and all the other injured users need a handle that ensures alignment of the hands, wrists, and forearms throughout the stroke. That is why users who suffer from wrist and elbow pain report relief from that pain if they use commercially available lifting straps. The lifting straps hook onto the C2 handle, freeing the user's grip, and the result is proper alignment of the joints under load. The lifting straps do what a properly designed handle should do. With proper design, proper technique flows naturally, and the risk of injury disappears. There is nothing off topic about a discussion of handle design when the subject is user wrist and elbow injury.

[JaapvanE]

Yeah, there are a bazillion biomechanical improvements one can make. That isn't the question.

Yes, it is the question.

No. You have the insane bias to blame a machine where the data clearly points the other way. Final answer.

[Slidewinder]

That is why users who suffer from wrist and elbow pain report relief from that pain if they use commercially available lifting straps. The lifting straps hook onto the C2 handle, freeing the user's grip, and the result is proper alignment of the joints under load.

I had forgotten about lifting straps. Movers use them for lifting heavy loads.
It is easy to visualize what goes on during a stroke if the user wears lifting straps to connect to the C2 handle. Since the user's hands are now completely free, what position do you suppose the user's hands will settle into? Obviously, they assume the most comfortable, natural, and neutral position - alignment with the wrists. As the stroke progresses and the angle of the user's forearms change in relation to the handle, the user wearing lifting straps can maintain the hands comfortably and neutrally in alignment with the wrists. The result is not just the relief of pain of injury (as reported by users), but elimination of the source of injury (that is why movers use them).

Therefore, a properly designed rowing ergometer handle should replicate the functionality of lifting straps. No need for hooks, or even of straps. The important thing is that the handle has sufficient compliance to ensure that the user's grip remain in a neutral position, that is, in alignment with the wrist throughout the stroke. It doesn't matter what you call such a handle - split, articulated... call it what you will. That is what a properly designed rowing ergometer handle should do - and should have been done decades ago.

[Tsnor]

I've been ... doing Tyler Twists

Keep doing these. Close to a miracle cure.

I do tend to only use fingers as I thought this was preferred?

The handle should rest immediately between your palm and your fingers. The weight is not on your fingers. Think where you would put your hand on the bar for a pullup. Wrap your thumb around, but hook your fingers rather than tightly grip. Tight grip creates a forearm problem.

Do occasionally "play piano" with your fingers on the recovery. This tends to get your forearms to relax.

For the third part of the Drive, compare the feel of "pulling with your arms" to "pulling your elbows behind your body". They should feel really different. You want the latter. Tennis elbow is a wrist/forearm problem "..repetitive motions that strain the forearm muscles...". You want your wrists flat all the time, do not pull with your wrist, hang from the handle with your wrists. Thinking pulling elbows behind you helps because adding force at the wrist doesn't help do that.

<<Not a Doctor, but worked through tennis elbow once. GL >>

[Slidewinder]

I would like to hear from those forum members who in the past were vigorous defenders of the C2 handle, who regularly advised others on 'proper technique' when using it, and who over time suffered such debilitating injuries that they required arm surgery. I know they are out there. One of them, a few short years ago, was the forum 'jeer leader' whenever I pointed out the bio-mechanical deficiencies of the C2 stock handle. He has now fallen silent. His bluster has evaporated. No one needs to tell him that praise for Concept 2, and arm scars from surgery, are not a convincing combination.