Strategies for the aging athlete

[KeithT]

Interesting differences between many of us. I definitely don't recover the same as I did when younger - I notice it more with weights than the ERG but still a big difference and I didn't do the ERG when younger (not til later 40s). I always have DOMS from weights and it last longer and that's with hitting muscle groups way less frequently that when young. I also feel I just don't have as much desire on the ERG when I know I will be slower. I am definitely not as strong as I used to be either and that's very easy to measure. I continued to progress from late 40s into early 50s but then seemed to stop progressing and now declining. I also wonder about COVID and other health issues I have had. Anyway, I am glad we all keep trying to beat Father Time.

Resetting your expectations is such a difficult thing to do, which I assume is mainly due to the intangible evidence that you are going slower on the erg due to age. It could be a bad day, bad patch or you just need to tweak something that has always worked in the past. When your mind gives up, then it's a huge battle to get it back on track, as that's got to be the basis of the driving force to keep it going.

I'm also finding weights is taking a bigger chunk out of me than erging, and the day after a weights day (admittedly with a circa 12k erg and a 5k walk in the morning). This used to be fairly manageable, but in the past couple of years, I've had to stop it altogether for a while to start with, and then build it back up slowly.

Out of interest, are you comparing yourself to younger ergers, or just your own times?

I fall into the bad habit of comparing to myself at my best. I get really annoyed when I do a workout 2-3 seconds per split slower than when in best shape. That often leads to an HD or a "change of plans". Recently I decided to do some workouts that would be challenging but I know I can do. Plan to try and just keep doing them quicker and feel like I am progressing back to where I was. I know I may not get all the way back but I need a plan to try and have positive results.

[Sakly]

I could gain ca. 6kg in the last months eating 2 to 3 times a day. Don't know the calories, but I would estimate roughly 3,500-4000.
Less rowing than you do (50-70km per week), but 3 gym sessions added.

Just shows either I am bad at getting the nutrition from my food or I have a much faster metabolism as I am sure your weight sessions more than make up the difference. Also:
1)you are significantly larger than me
2) you row much faster than me so

You would be expected to have a higher metabolism.

As you are a lightweight, I definitely have more mass than you
I can add mass very easily, sadly it's fat I can gain with no problem, it's in my genes. All my siblings have severe overweight, I'm the only one "getting it right".
Rowing is typically 2:03 or faster. Slower than that is only on really bad days, when I feel wasted, but need to move. My watch tells me burning ca. 900-1000kcal per hour average on the rower (typically 3-4h on the rower per week). For my gym sessions it logs ca. 1500kcal average. Don't know how accurate this is, but with my current diet and work load I maintain weight, which is 84kg at the moment.

[Dangerscouse]

I fall into the bad habit of comparing to myself at my best. I get really annoyed when I do a workout 2-3 seconds per split slower than when in best shape. That often leads to an HD or a "change of plans". Recently I decided to do some workouts that would be challenging but I know I can do. Plan to try and just keep doing them quicker and feel like I am progressing back to where I was. I know I may not get all the way back but I need a plan to try and have positive results.

Perfect. I've been doing the same thing recently and I've needed to recalibrate my expectations. Admittedly it's still a work in progress, as muscle memory and ego can be a bit too dominant on occasions

[MPx]

I fall into the bad habit of comparing to myself at my best. I get really annoyed when I do a workout 2-3 seconds per split slower than when in best shape. That often leads to an HD or a "change of plans". Recently I decided to do some workouts that would be challenging but I know I can do. Plan to try and just keep doing them quicker and feel like I am progressing back to where I was. I know I may not get all the way back but I need a plan to try and have positive results.

Perfect. I've been doing the same thing recently and I've needed to recalibrate my expectations. Admittedly it's still a work in progress, as muscle memory and ego can be a bit too dominant on occasions

I agree - Keith's plan is something that's worked for me over the years where permanently staying at PB level is just not realistic. Some do it with periodicity In their training targetting longer or shorter events at different times. In my case I give blood roughly very 4 months. That always has a performance impact (moot point if its a physical or just mental issue). I "allow myself" to target slower sessions after a donation...then use the PetePlan technique of last times average for all but the last bit which I try to make faster setting a faster average for next time. Gradually get back to a level I'm happy with - albeit nowhere near where I was 13 years ago. But it means I'm improving most of the time (albeit with a regular significant step back) which is much more fun than just wallowing in a gradual decline.

[Annisotropic]

This thread is so relevant for me right now - apart from one season of rowing at college, I didn't do any exercise until my 40s and already at that point it seemed like I was getting old(er) faster than I was getting fit(ter).
Now I'm 61 and back erging again - about halfway through the BPP, absolutely loving it, but already getting nervous about what will happen when I get to the end of it. I should reach my target weight at about the same time, and without the encouragement of seeing daily weight loss, I will need a new goal. Gains in performance are likely to be small or to have plateau'd, and I hate the thought of working hard just to stay still, or even decline.
Two things I have noticed that are different from 20 years ago: back then, despite all advice, I never warmed up properly and could launch straight into fairly tough sessions. Now, there is a big difference in pace after the first 10 or even 20 minutes - when I expect to be getting slower, I'm actually still getting faster.
Second, I seem to recover more quickly - although my paces are much slower than before, they are still at around the same percentile when adjusted for age. Back then, I'd be hot and red-faced an hour after the gym, yet now my HR returns from max (only 154 for me) to warmup level (around 80) within a minute.

[JaapvanE]

I should reach my target weight at about the same time, and without the encouragement of seeing daily weight loss, I will need a new goal. Gains in performance are likely to be small or to have plateau'd, and I hate the thought of working hard just to stay still, or even decline.

Key thing is enjoying what you do. I like to set targets for myself in distance rowed over the year. And I found some companies where you track your progress and earn physical medals for rowing (or walking, cycling) significant distances. I'm currently rowing the length of Great Brittain, which is 1700 k, so that helps me with some focus.

Another thing I focus on is technique: while keeping the same pace, you can change the stroke, making it gentler on your joints. I tended to have quite heavy peak loads (over 650N) for a pace around 2:05. Keeping the pace the same, but my stroke is longer and more relaxed, and peak forces are now around 525N.

[Annisotropic]

Yes, I am enjoying it currently, but probably more focused on the goal than the process. I'm also halfway through 500 miles of a "row the distance" challenge, and finding it far more motivating than I expected it to be.
I've been complacent about technique, but that could definitely be a big thing to focus on when the other 3 goals are reached (weight, BPP, and 500 miles, all at roughly the same time).

[MPx]

Now I'm 61 and back erging again -
... yet now my HR returns from max (only 154 for me) to warmup level (around 80) within a minute.

You've been round the block already so will know your physiology much better than me! However I'd challenge these figures a bit. 154 is a low HRmax. We are all different and its perfectly possible that that's right for you. But how do you know? A max HR test is horrendous to go through - most of us dont do it. I've seen what I count as my max during a sprint at the end of a fast 5k or 6k TT - it was 170 last year at 66. But its really hard to do that. I recently did a really hard 10k with a sprint at the end hard enough to produce a scream, but still only maxed out my HR at 165 - so I could have gone harder despite what my brain was telling me!

The other aspect to this is your speed of recovery. Obviously very impresive...but raises more questions. If you pushed yourself to a real HRmax I think recovery within a minute is pushing credibility. Even Stu on here who has incredible recovery in short rest intervals would struggle to get back to warm up levels within a minute from HRmax.

Not meaning to p**s on your parade. Its great that you're back on the erg and you seem to be doing really well. What a potentially higher HRmax means though is that there's more in there and you've plenty more headroom to recover even more of your younger self performance. Best of luck with that.

[dabatey]

Now I'm 61 and back erging again -
... yet now my HR returns from max (only 154 for me) to warmup level (around 80) within a minute.

A max HR test is horrendous to go through.

I actually completely disagree with this. Compared to a 2k max effort, a ramp test for max HR is a walk in the park with only the end 'all out' portion being difficult.

That is of course if you give your 'all' at the right point in the ramp I suppose which takes a certain bit of playing it by ear, it certainly has the opportunity to be horrendous if you don't go all out early enough and instead play it like a cycling FTP ramp test.

[Annisotropic]

That is of course if you give your 'all' at the right point in the ramp I suppose which takes a certain bit of playing it by ear, it certainly has the opportunity to be horrendous if you don't go all out early enough and instead play it like a cycling FTP ramp test.

Can you say a bit more about this? I agree with MPx that 154 almost certainly isn't my true MHR, although it is the highest I've seen recently, and I do think that my true max is still going to be low. (resting HR is 44, and I certainly am not fit by any standards)

I'm a long way away from attempting to establish a true MHR, but if it ever seems like something I want to do, any tactics to make it less painful than a 2k, would be great to hear!

[dabatey]

That is of course if you give your 'all' at the right point in the ramp I suppose which takes a certain bit of playing it by ear, it certainly has the opportunity to be horrendous if you don't go all out early enough and instead play it like a cycling FTP ramp test.

Can you say a bit more about this? I agree with MPx that 154 almost certainly isn't my true MHR, although it is the highest I've seen recently, and I do think that my true max is still going to be low. (resting HR is 44, and I certainly am not fit by any standards)

I'm a long way away from attempting to establish a true MHR, but if it ever seems like something I want to do, any tactics to make it less painful than a 2k, would be great to hear!

It all depends on your own power and fitness I suppose as you'd need to tailor it to you. The way I did it was to edge the power up gradually (over about 15 minutes or so) to where I was working reasonably hard (for me the pace I'd pull a hard 30 minutes), then started ramping the power a bit steeper over the next 4 minutes or so to about 2k pace and then going all out sprinting for a short time as long as I could hold. There is a protocol from I think NZ for ramp steps if you google it you'll probably find it but after reading it I decided just to make up my own that would suit my own power and fitness a bit better.

Unlike 7-8 minutes of 2k pain, there is only a couple of minutes near the end that feels as bad and a lot of the rest is just basically warm up for the final flourish.

Edit- Just looked at my log. I did 16m40s of slow ramp. Then 3 min of faster ramp finishing with my sprint burst at just before 21m. That was after just ten days of erging so wasn't difficult to 'feel' my way into. FWIW I've never actually reached max on a 2k test, usually ending 1 or 2 bpm short of what I achieved on the ramp, but I'd imagine possibly finishing on max HR if I got the 2k pacing just right.

[Dangerscouse]

The other aspect to this is your speed of recovery. Obviously very impresive...but raises more questions. If you pushed yourself to a real HRmax I think recovery within a minute is pushing credibility. Even Stu on here who has incredible recovery in short rest intervals would struggle to get back to warm up levels within a minute from HRmax.

I do seem to have good rates of recovery, and as a rough guide I'll drop 40-50bpm in a minute, for a high end tough effort. For a max effort, I'd guess that would be at least two minutes, but then to drop another 20-30bpm would also be another 60-90 seconds as a guess. I'm usually gasping on the floor when that happens, so I'm not in the slightest bit interested in HR

[iain]

FWIW I've never actually reached max on a 2k test, usually ending 1 or 2 bpm short of what I achieved on the ramp, but I'd imagine possibly finishing on max HR if I got the 2k pacing just right.

I remember a previous discussion when it was consensus that the "Central Limiter" prevents HRmax during 2k, no idea whether that is true, but never been closer than 3BpM off max on a 2k despite sometimes putting in 2 min of faster rated work and ending at all out thrash. Consistently higher after full on 5 or 6k, although unlike Stu I have never been that close on an FM which I have assumed is down to cardiac tiredness.

[MPx]

Now I'm 61 and back erging again -
... yet now my HR returns from max (only 154 for me) to warmup level (around 80) within a minute.

A max HR test is horrendous to go through.

I actually completely disagree with this. Compared to a 2k max effort, a ramp test for max HR is a walk in the park with only the end 'all out' portion being difficult.

That is of course if you give your 'all' at the right point in the ramp I suppose which takes a certain bit of playing it by ear, it certainly has the opportunity to be horrendous if you don't go all out early enough and instead play it like a cycling FTP ramp test.

Ha! We'll just have to agree to differ on this. I'd go so far as to suggest if you found it a walk in the park up until the last rep, then you probably haven't found your max yet. It takes a long time in the hurt box to reach maxHR. Erging "to failure" is easily done and doesn't imply anything about HR. My session last night sounds very similar to your description of a max HR test. It was actually a 1k TT but I spent quite a while warming up at a modest pace with bursts of power from time to time - reasonably challenging but very much at the walk in the park end. A 1k TT for me is just under 3:20 which is the sort of effort to failure time of the last rep you describe - and I did indeed get to the point about 600 in where I couldn't sustain my race plan (failure?) but still managed to keep going and put in a faster last 100 to get a 3:17.8 - OK but 2s slower than last season. Despite all that pain and effort my HR only got to 160, way off my max. 2k for me is something over 7 min these days. 7 or even 8mins isn't long enough to reach maxHR - but very easy to reach failure if you over cook it.

[nick rockliff]

When I've done the step test for vo2max it's based on 4 min intervals with 1 min recovery where they take blood sample for lactate profile.

The interval intensity is based on a recent 2k. At my peak I started the first interval at 210W then increased by 30W until you reached over 4mmol lactate then the last interval is to find vo2max and max HR.

Just looking at one of the test sessions where I needed to do six intervals to assess lactate with a 7th interval flat out for vo2max and max HR. This was over 400W.

Max HR for me was 173 at vo2max, was 48 then and 67 now and not seen 160 or more for quite some time.