Only training on the indoor rower

[dabatey]

Add the fact though that weights can be dangerous.

I ripped my adductor squatting, and it's never been quite the same since. It wasn't a form issue, just a general muscle belly tear which reading weights forums is a reasonably common thing when lifting heavier weights. Then after the muscle healed I pulled some sort of tendon/ligament in a similar area (which might have been a result of the earlier tear). I also damaged my rotator cuff (which might have been a form issue, or may have been a lingering former injury from work.)

The point after which you start losing strength significantly is around 50, and I'd argue that after this stage rowing is quite a safe option and being useable up until a late age in life safely given no compromising health issues, and probably is enough without the addition of weights. Yes pushing motions with the arms are missed out but in real life the main things you want strength for are pulling/lifting motions which rowing helps with. Of course, weights doesn't give the cardiovascular benefits of rowing either.

[Autoland]

Gravity modification may be better than weights.

If that is not an option, weights seem to be the clear choice for muscle building.

I'm not particularly interested in building more muscle mass. My main goals are maintaining what I've got and bettering my cardiovascular system.

Before discovering Pilates, I used to do a variety of bodyweight exercises three times a week to maintain muscle mass. 5+ Pilates classes a week has supplanted that activity. This seems to be effective at achieving the goal of maintaining muscle mass and adds balance and stretching to the checklist.

The cardiovascular side I think is adequately addressed by rowing and walking.

The key in all of these activities to me is pushing myself and maintaining form. Row hard when called for, walk fast and don't cheat in Pilates class.

[kini62]

Thank you all for the great information.

I'll definitely experiment with different drag factors and see what feels best for me.
I'll also look in the rankings to see at what level I am, but like someone pointed out: a good time is your PB minus one second. I really like that and it's true!
Always trying to improve yourself and give your 100 % is all that matters.

I am looking forward to getting better and better and be the best version of me I can be!

It has been a long time since I was so motivated to get better at a sport, since my wrist injury that had me quit boxing for good in april 2018.
Although I never quit sport after my injury (I still was jogging and cycling on my stationary bike at home), I never felt the motivation to get better at running for example. With rowing, I do have that motivation and it feels great.

Thanks again, everybody, for all the information provided. It's very much appreciated!

How old are you? I love my erg and skierg but found that although my aerobics was pretty good, that I was also pretty weak. As you get older strength training becomes more important. I've switched to mostly strength training with a 2K or so warm up on the erg or skierg. I feel much better. My lower back and shoulder pain are pretty much gone. I did a 5K the other week and found that I had one of my best times in the last year. Hard strength training can really get the HR up.

Sorry for the late response. I had a lot on my mind last week and forgot to check out the forum.

I'm turning 37 in a few days. I am doing sports since I was a little kid. Played football (soccer), basketball, track and field (sprints) and boxing (which i had to quit due to a wrist injury). How do you exactly do your strength training on the rower? Mostly interval training, I guess?

Today I did a short interval training where I did 10 x 250m with 1 minute rest between each set.

I also have lower back pain since a few years, on and off. I think it's because I'm sitting all day at work. Maybe my lower back pain goes away with rowing, like yours.

It was the strength training that eliminated the majority of my lower back pain, not the rower. The rower did not make it worse though.

I mostly use a device called the Kbox. It's an excentric flywheel thing, that while rather expensive is the best thing I've ever purchased for my home gym. I've wasted more money than I care to count on treadmills.

I also have a small rack, about 160lbs of weights and 2 bars, and a pair of powerblocks.

[kini62]

Add the fact though that weights can be dangerous.

I ripped my adductor squatting, and it's never been quite the same since. It wasn't a form issue, just a general muscle belly tear which reading weights forums is a reasonably common thing when lifting heavier weights. Then after the muscle healed I pulled some sort of tendon/ligament in a similar area (which might have been a result of the earlier tear). I also damaged my rotator cuff (which might have been a form issue, or may have been a lingering former injury from work.)

The point after which you start losing strength significantly is around 50, and I'd argue that after this stage rowing is quite a safe option and being useable up until a late age in life safely given no compromising health issues, and probably is enough without the addition of weights. Yes pushing motions with the arms are missed out but in real life the main things you want strength for are pulling/lifting motions which rowing helps with. Of course, weights doesn't give the cardiovascular benefits of rowing either.

Not totally true. I've maintained my previous aerobic capacity (at least up to 5K) since moving to mostly strength training. A normal strength training session will have my average HR over the session 130s-140s.. This is for around 30-45 minutes typically. More than enough to maintain aerobic function.

Just want to clarify, that for me strength training is not all "weight lifting". In fact actual free weights are only less than 1/4 of my overall training.

[Sakly]

Add the fact though that weights can be dangerous.

I ripped my adductor squatting, and it's never been quite the same since. It wasn't a form issue, just a general muscle belly tear which reading weights forums is a reasonably common thing when lifting heavier weights. Then after the muscle healed I pulled some sort of tendon/ligament in a similar area (which might have been a result of the earlier tear). I also damaged my rotator cuff (which might have been a form issue, or may have been a lingering former injury from work.)

The point after which you start losing strength significantly is around 50, and I'd argue that after this stage rowing is quite a safe option and being useable up until a late age in life safely given no compromising health issues, and probably is enough without the addition of weights. Yes pushing motions with the arms are missed out but in real life the main things you want strength for are pulling/lifting motions which rowing helps with. Of course, weights doesn't give the cardiovascular benefits of rowing either.

Not totally true. I've maintained my previous aerobic capacity (at least up to 5K) since moving to mostly strength training. A normal strength training session will have my average HR over the session 130s-140s.. This is for around 30-45 minutes typically. More than enough to maintain aerobic function.

Just want to clarify, that for me strength training is not all "weight lifting". In fact actual free weights are only less than 1/4 of my overall training.

Agreed.
Started rowing in January, before only (mainly) bodyweight and weights.
First 2k 6:58, first HM 1:21:59. I think that would not have been possible with a well build aerobic capacity.
But I did not focused on raw power or building muscles. Many metcons and strength workouts mixed.

[Tsnor]

I shall try say five sets of three-stroke starts from stationary on my erg and see what happens. I am sorely in need of strength, finding it harder than ever to get off the sofa or even out of bed.

In cycling (not rowing) pedaling with very high load (very tall gear) was found *NOT* to give the same benefits as weight lifting.

An erg is very high torque coming from stationary. Legs can deliver a huge load on your curved back at the catch. The "five sets of three-stroke starts from stationary on my erg " sounds like high opportunity for injury with minimal opportunity for strength gains.

Do look at "goblet squats". A simple, cheap dumbbell will give you all the load you need if you want to work legs. Many videos on youtube. Or see if there is a club like "planet fitness" in your area. At $10/month planet fitness has a pretty nice set of equipment and is a comfortable place for people of all ages.

[jamesg]

An erg is very high torque coming from stationary.

Certainly ergdata shows high force on starting from standstill. I saw well over 1000N at the first stroke from standstill (not a good idea), holding 400-450 for another five six strokes at rate <24, five repeats.

I used 20s on 20s off, keeping force well below max for now.

[JaapvanE]

An erg is very high torque coming from stationary.

Certainly ergdata shows high force on starting from standstill. I saw well over 1000N at the first stroke from standstill (not a good idea), holding 400-450 for another five six strokes at rate <24, five repeats.

And that potentially is a very conservative estimate, as the Torque calculation contains the dragfactor, which isn't defined yet in the first strokes (i.e. Concept2 uses some default value).

[Tsnor]

An erg is very high torque coming from stationary.

Certainly ergdata shows high force on starting from standstill. I saw well over 1000N at the first stroke from standstill (not a good idea), holding 400-450 for another five six strokes at rate <24, five repeats.

I used 20s on 20s off, keeping force well below max for now.

Perfect. 20 on 20 off gives you ability to spin the erg up in the last few off strokes of the rest cycle so that first power stroke is same as the others, not huge torque.

I like 30 on 90 off ... gives you pretty near full HR recovery, and 40 on 20 off ... gives you continuous max HR. If you get bored with 20/20s give these a try. (Aside: if you do 20 X 40 seconds on, 20 seconds off at max effort you've got a very good 2K time predictor.)

[gvcormac]

Thanks all, for the interesting discussion. My principal concern is what geriatrics like me need to do to maintain muscle, rather than to bulk up. My understanding (incomplete as it is) that maybe you don't need progressive overload, but you need to overload more than you would in your normal aerobic activities.

I admit I haven't figured it out yet. It seems that using stairs (dozens of flights per day) and running (occasionally hard) shoulld give sufficient stimulus to my legs. Maybe rowing sprints would do the same for my arms and core, but I do pull-ups and push-ups just to be sure. I don't see the need for weighted pull-ups and push-ups, but who knows.

As I said, for most of my life I didn't think strength training was necessary at all. I'm now questioning that long-held conviction, but I'm far from confident about having the right answer.