Prizes and manipulation

[gofaster]

I’m so glad I found this thread, I thought I was going mad!

Couldn’t understand how someone who (is stupid enough to leave their logbook open for everyone to see) has never rowed more than about 16,000m verified is suddenly submitting 45,000m-50,000m+ in a single row and at a considerably faster pace than the 16,000m.

It had never crossed my mind that people cheated, how naive am I.

Will take all your advice and stick to my personal goals.

Queried the massive jump in ‘rowed’ metres with C2 and they don’t see anything out of the ordinary!

How on earth can someone who’s never rowed more than 16,000m at 2.46 suddenly row 59,000m at 2.53? Maybe I am just too suspicious, it just seems unbelievable to me.

Oh and of course nothing has to be verified!

[hjs]

I’m so glad I found this thread, I thought I was going mad!

Couldn’t understand how someone who (is stupid enough to leave their logbook open for everyone to see) has never rowed more than about 16,000m verified is suddenly submitting 45,000m-50,000m+ in a single row and at a considerably faster pace than the 16,000m.

It had never crossed my mind that people cheated, how naive am I.

Will take all your advice and stick to my personal goals.

Queried the massive jump in ‘rowed’ metres with C2 and they don’t see anything out of the ordinary!

How on earth can someone who’s never rowed more than 16,000m at 2.46 suddenly row 59,000m at 2.53? Maybe I am just too suspicious, it just seems unbelievable to me.

Oh and of course nothing has to be verified!

Sounds very doable at those paces. Thats easy walking effort. Its more are you willing to put the time in? Any, healthy, rower could do that imo.
2.53 is 67 watt....

[gofaster]

This is why I have difficulty in believing the times, nothing over 7k is verified. All done in the last week:

2.6k @ 4.19 verified
3.5k @ 3.42 verified
3.1k @ 3.19 verified
4.1k @ 3.21 verified
41k @ 3.00 not verified
15k @ 2.46 not verified
35k @ 2.53 not verified
30k @ 2.49 not verified
7k @ 3.17 verified
48k @ 3.11 not verified
47k @ 2.59 not verified
59k @ 2.53 not verified

[Carl Watts]

This is why I have difficulty in believing the times, nothing over 7k is verified. All done in the last week:

2.6k @ 4.19 verified
3.5k @ 3.42 verified
3.1k @ 3.19 verified
4.1k @ 3.21 verified
41k @ 3.00 not verified
15k @ 2.46 not verified
35k @ 2.53 not verified
30k @ 2.49 not verified
7k @ 3.17 verified
48k @ 3.11 not verified
47k @ 2.59 not verified
59k @ 2.53 not verified

Don't waste your time here.

I suggest everyone reading this that wants a verification system introduced or to at least get rid of the manual data entry system send an e-mail to the guy at Concept 2 looking after it.

David Hart

ranking@concept2.com

He was very helpful and eventually some of my suggestions like the "Verified only" filter and connecting your result in the rankings to your logbook entry if your profile is open for everyone to see actually happened.

At present, Concept 2 doesn't think the way the challenges are setup is a problem and we get the same old argument from PM2 users that they cannot enter a verified result. Sorry but the PM2 went out of production in 2003, its time to get a new monitor if you want to enter, you are now in the tiny minority of users that are stuffing it up for the rest of us.

There are several sources available now for a verified row, its not that hard to implement either now compared to having to manually enter the verification code. RowPro now automatically synchronizes your local LogBook to the Concept 2 Logbook, I don't need to do a thing to get a verified row.

If Concept 2 get enough e-mails, perhaps they will make the changes.

[hjs]

This is why I have difficulty in believing the times, nothing over 7k is verified. All done in the last week:

2.6k @ 4.19 verified
3.5k @ 3.42 verified
3.1k @ 3.19 verified
4.1k @ 3.21 verified
41k @ 3.00 not verified
15k @ 2.46 not verified
35k @ 2.53 not verified
30k @ 2.49 not verified
7k @ 3.17 verified
48k @ 3.11 not verified
47k @ 2.59 not verified
59k @ 2.53 not verified

I only say, its not difficult to do these rows, very relax paces, Only very long in time. Possibly done with breaks and ad up per day.

I myself certainly want to keep the non verified data, if not the logbook would be a nightmare, with way to much entries. I also put in my weightstraining, by hand ofcourse.

If I do a faster or interval training, I often do a warmup, a short faster piece, main sesh, cd..
I only want the main sesh in my logbook, the other stuff I write down, but the meters I ad up in one total per week.

And I don,t care much about the volume I make, but want to able to roughly get my sessions in and not get a gezillion entries per week with all sorts of fluff. And its not that those meter challenges are races, its just a personal incentive. Ofcourse some people will have fake entries, but for the most I don,t think so, nothing to gain, except a pin here and there.

Not everybody wants the same, we have to deal with that. if you guys say, for the volume challenges only verified, I say whatever, but making it impossible to use the logbook like you want to for personal use, just because a few guys get worked up about others is pretty sad.

[Carl Watts]

I myself certainly want to keep the non verified data, if not the logbook would be a nightmare, with way to much entries. I also put in my weightstraining, by hand ofcourse.

I don't understand your argument. Every row you do is in the memory of the PM3 PM4 or PM5 so its automatically a verified row. You just use the Concept 2 Utility to upload your results. You can easily add manual NOTES or COMMENTS like I do with the Temperature and Humidity.

I'm talking about the Concept 2 online Logbook, not some manual Excel spreadsheet. Its now almost fully automated. There is no need for "Manual Entries" the chances of RowPro crashing AND loosing the result on the PM5 monitor is now extremely low.

If you get hit by lightening while rowing and loose both results, its just too bad.

I have only ever lost one result in 10 years of rowing so the chances of that happening during a Challenge where your trying to maximise your meters are next to zero.

[Tenshuu]

I myself certainly want to keep the non verified data, if not the logbook would be a nightmare, with way to much entries. I also put in my weightstraining, by hand ofcourse.

I don't understand your argument. Every row you do is in the memory of the PM3 PM4 or PM5 so its automatically a verified row. You just use the Concept 2 Utility to upload your results. You can easily add manual NOTES or COMMENTS like I do with the Temperature and Humidity.

I'm talking about the Concept 2 online Logbook, not some manual Excel spreadsheet. Its now almost fully automated. There is no need for "Manual Entries" the chances of RowPro crashing AND loosing the result on the PM5 monitor is now extremely low.

If you get hit by lightening while rowing and loose both results, its just too bad.

I have only ever lost one result in 10 years of rowing so the chances of that happening during a Challenge where your trying to maximise your meters are next to zero.

Your experience is n=1. My experience is that if I have a connection drop mid workout, my result is no longer verifiable, no code on pm5, and ergdata doesn't save a workout it doesn't completely record..... If my monitor isn't up to date when I do my session, and I try to upload the workout, it isn't verified.....

I've lost 2 mud madness sessions to ergdata drops this month, thankfully it's not a verified structure and I was able to manually enter the sessions.

[johnlvs2run]

I always enter my meters manually, only use verification for PB's, and don't even enter my time or pace for easy days. If C2 required verification for everything, then I'd only enter PB's nothing else.

Regarding the meters and rankings lists, they're based on absolute weight, not pace per weight. Until ranking times are based on pace per weight, none of the results will give a true indication of actual performance.

[hjs]

I myself certainly want to keep the non verified data, if not the logbook would be a nightmare, with way to much entries. I also put in my weightstraining, by hand ofcourse.

I don't understand your argument. Every row you do is in the memory of the PM3 PM4 or PM5 so its automatically a verified row. You just use the Concept 2 Utility to upload your results. You can easily add manual NOTES or COMMENTS like I do with the Temperature and Humidity.

I'm talking about the Concept 2 online Logbook, not some manual Excel spreadsheet. Its now almost fully automated. There is no need for "Manual Entries" the chances of RowPro crashing AND loosing the result on the PM5 monitor is now extremely low.

If you get hit by lightening while rowing and loose both results, its just too bad.

I have only ever lost one result in 10 years of rowing so the chances of that happening during a Challenge where your trying to maximise your meters are next to zero.

You donkt bother to read

I don,t want my warm ups cool etc verified, thats my point, if everything I do a week of training would give me 30 orso entries in my logbook. Which I don,t want. I ad those up on one entry a week. Keeps my logbook a bit more limited. I want ONE ENTRY per session.
1500 or more entries per year, thats what I would get makes it unreadable, plus If I can,t fill in other training I do, makes its uncomplete.
If for challenges, the meters need to be verified, I say whatever, don,t give about that, but that I would loose the options I have now for such a personal reason.

[Anth_F]

You donkt

That cracked me up

Gotta love dem typos, eh Henry

[hjs]

You donkt

That cracked me up

Gotta love dem typos, eh Henry

when will I ever learn to read back before I post

[jurgwhitehouse]

I hadn't even considered that people would actually be cheating on their logbook!
It shouldn't bother me but it does. I've rowed every day this season, no days off, 4.6m metres so far and rank at #76 (filtered for Indoor Rower only). All verified.

Now I'm wondering what my rank would be if I could filter for verified only. Unverified metres do not count as far as I'm concerned, especially for the challenges, especially if you're competing in the challenges.

Thanks to Ergdata and the PC Utility it takes less effort to upload metres as verified than it does to manually enter them as unverified. Yes it must be annoying to lose a workout due to technical gremlins, never happened to me thankfully, but it's going to have an negligible effect on total season metres.

I've worked hard for my ranking even though it's meaningless to anyone other than me!

[Carl Watts]

Weak excuses for non verified rows guys, all it means is that you like to manipulate your results.

Everything should be verified for the Challenges, end of story. Without verification I cannot be bothered entering. Its like being able to enter the Olympic games while sitting in a chair during the "Race" and just manually entering your 100M sprint time of 9.5 seconds.

If you have problems with loosing your results you have hardware/firmware update issues. The PM5 as a stand alone is faultless and I'm on the older one with V29. Never had any issues with the PM3 or PM4's with updated firmware. RowPro was the cause of any crash issues so without that its a faultless set-up.

My PC suddenly became a dog last week and I fixed it with a new Hp Z240, all the issues are now gone with RowPro V5.3.3. Sometimes you just have to spend some money and upgrade.

[Tenshuu]

Weak excuses for non verified rows guys, all it means is that you like to manipulate your results.

Everything should be verified for the Challenges, end of story. Without verification I cannot be bothered entering. Its like being able to enter the Olympic games while sitting in a chair during the "Race" and just manually entering your 100M sprint time of 9.5 seconds.

I think you're being over-suggestive about those who have unverified meters in their logbook. You can call me a "cheater" if you want, but I also take photos of my PM5 screen FWIW. I'm not a cheater, and I gain nothing by entering in fake meters, I have just run into technical difficulties - not frequently, but they have occurred at extremely inconvenient times.

When I'm doing a 10k for my mud madness challenge, and I get a phone call and lose my ergdata connection during the row, I'm not going to sit down and do another 10k just to keep it verified - that's absurd when I'm already on a tight schedule to get my sessions in daily. I'll plug in my distance and time into the logbook and call it a sad day because I am bummed that I don't see all of my split/HR/Stroke data, which I like to track and watch.

If I rowed 10km, and I can't upload it verified, I'm going to log that I did 10km, otherwise I lose track of my training volume.... It's not all black and white Carl. If I end up going to a hotel gym when travelling for work and use an old PM that doesn't have bluetooth, i'm SOL on verifying my workout, especially if their machine isn't updated (most likely isn't).

You can't go calling everyone a cheater because they don't verify every single workout they have ever done, as you have, that's just childish outrage. I don't think anyone here doubts your hard work and effort placed into the meters you row, why are you immediately jumping to that conclusion about others?

[johnlvs2run]

All of my times in the rankings are verified, and I've not fiddled around with Rowpro and other devices to make them appear that way. I couldn't care less what Carl does. However, he weighs 230 pounds, doesn't adjust for his weight, yet still enters his times and meters in the log book -- so he has no room to accuse other people.