Sub 6:30 by October. Training advice

[gooseflight]

What do you think of the current plan?

Mon. 5k max effort time.
Wed 3. X 1500
Friday 8 to 10k

Just trying to take a small step back from 3 max effort sessions per week. Was pretty draining.

Fine. Maybe add a fourth 1500 at some point. You can always tweak the 10K depending on how you feel, e.g., row it easy; row 2K hard 2K soft; reduce the split every 1K or 2K (negative splitting); and so on. Work on keeping the rate down. You have the height so no need to rush up and down.

[JimS]

What do you think of the current plan?

Mon. 5k max effort time.
Wed 3. X 1500
Friday 8 to 10k

Just trying to take a small step back from 3 max effort sessions per week. Was pretty draining.

Fine. Maybe add a fourth 1500 at some point. You can always tweak the 10K depending on how you feel, e.g., row it easy; row 2K hard 2K soft; reduce the split every 1K or 2K (negative splitting); and so on. Work on keeping the rate down. You have the height so no need to rush up and down.

Thanks.

Hard to commit to much more time per week than this. I have a history of going harder and harder and longer and longer in the gym/training until it takes over so much time I can't sustain it.

5 days, every morning for 45 minutes seems something I can sustain for the rest of my life.

So working on the idea that the best training plan is the one that you can stick to

[Dangerscouse]

So working on the idea that the best training plan is the one that you can stick to

Definitely. Any long term plan needs to be enjoyable and sustainable, or it has to be relatively limited.

[Cyclingman1]

When I first saw this topic, it seemed like a pretty ambitious goal. But then I see that the OP is 6'4", age 36, 250lb, ex-athlete. And rows three times a week. I will 100% guarantee that if you do nothing different, you will reach 6:30 in 7-8 months.

Don't really think that 2Ks are all that necessary. 5Ks are good. Some 30mins. I'd like to see some 6x500m and/or 3x1K intervals. No need to go crazy with mega repeat intervals. You can get better on 15-20K a week up to a point, especially in combination with other exercise. Now if you're talking 6:15, then the training has to ramp up a couple of notches. As far as 6:00, now we are in Henry territory.

[JimS]

When I first saw this topic, it seemed like a pretty ambitious goal. But then I see that the OP is 6'4", age 36, 250lb, ex-athlete. And rows three times a week. I will 100% guarantee that if you do nothing different, you will reach 6:30 in 7-8 months.

Don't really think that 2Ks are all that necessary. 5Ks are good. Some 30mins. I'd like to see some 6x500m and/or 3x1K intervals. No need to go crazy with mega repeat intervals. You can get better on 15-20K a week up to a point, especially in combination with other exercise. Now if you're talking 6:15, then the training has to ramp up a couple of notches. As far as 6:00, now we are in Henry territory.

Thanks for the encouragement! "Ex athlete" is probably overstating it. Just regular amateur league stuff.

Yesterday. Circuit
Today. 2 x 4k at 1.52

Found it much easier to keep the strike rate down today. Averaged 23 vs 25 last time. I think its mainly about getting into a happy rythym with breathing.

Tried to row with a longer stroke as well. Are we talking mainly further extending at the hip? Or catching closer to the wheel?

[Dangerscouse]

I definitely found my breathing sequence needed to adapt as reduced my stroke rate.

Don't get too close at the catch as you will lose some power in the drive. If you want to, extenuate the hip hinge but I don't think it's essential especially for your height.

If you use Ergdata my drive length is generally 1.39-1.45, and will get up to 1.52 If I'm really pushing at lower stroke rates

[hjs]

When I first saw this topic, it seemed like a pretty ambitious goal. But then I see that the OP is 6'4", age 36, 250lb, ex-athlete. And rows three times a week. I will 100% guarantee that if you do nothing different, you will reach 6:30 in 7-8 months.

Don't really think that 2Ks are all that necessary. 5Ks are good. Some 30mins. I'd like to see some 6x500m and/or 3x1K intervals. No need to go crazy with mega repeat intervals. You can get better on 15-20K a week up to a point, especially in combination with other exercise. Now if you're talking 6:15, then the training has to ramp up a couple of notches. As far as 6:00, now we are in Henry territory.

Thanks for the encouragement! "Ex athlete" is probably overstating it. Just regular amateur league stuff.

Yesterday. Circuit
Today. 2 x 4k at 1.52

Found it much easier to keep the strike rate down today. Averaged 23 vs 25 last time. I think its mainly about getting into a happy rythym with breathing.

Tried to row with a longer stroke as well. Are we talking mainly further extending at the hip? Or catching closer to the wheel?

Shins vertical at the catch, chest against the legs, not overeaching!
To legs, fully extended, back at slight angle backwards, handle towards the loser chest. There are apps you use to see the strokelenght. You should be around 1.60/65 given you build.

[JimS]

When I first saw this topic, it seemed like a pretty ambitious goal. But then I see that the OP is 6'4", age 36, 250lb, ex-athlete. And rows three times a week. I will 100% guarantee that if you do nothing different, you will reach 6:30 in 7-8 months.

Don't really think that 2Ks are all that necessary. 5Ks are good. Some 30mins. I'd like to see some 6x500m and/or 3x1K intervals. No need to go crazy with mega repeat intervals. You can get better on 15-20K a week up to a point, especially in combination with other exercise. Now if you're talking 6:15, then the training has to ramp up a couple of notches. As far as 6:00, now we are in Henry territory.

Thanks for the encouragement! "Ex athlete" is probably overstating it. Just regular amateur league stuff.

Yesterday. Circuit
Today. 2 x 4k at 1.52

Found it much easier to keep the strike rate down today. Averaged 23 vs 25 last time. I think its mainly about getting into a happy rythym with breathing.

Tried to row with a longer stroke as well. Are we talking mainly further extending at the hip? Or catching closer to the wheel?

Shins vertical at the catch, chest against the legs, not overeaching!
To legs, fully extended, back at slight angle backwards, handle towards the loser chest. There are apps you use to see the strokelenght. You should be around 1.60/65 given you build.

Cool. Thanks. Havent pulled any data off the erg yet. Will try and get on that.

Is taking video and posting it for form tips a thing here?

[lindsayh]

Cool. Thanks. Havent pulled any data off the erg yet. Will try and get on that.
Is taking video and posting it for form tips a thing here?

Yes a technique video is a good idea jim and often done here by posting the link to YouTube or the like.

[hjs]

Cool. Thanks. Havent pulled any data off the erg yet. Will try and get on that.
Is taking video and posting it for form tips a thing here?

Yes a technique video is a good idea jim and often done here by posting the link to YouTube or the like.

Indeed, wil give you some pointers.

Ergdata is usefull/nice app. Pretty easy and allows you to update your work online. Certainly not needed, but gives a nice overview of what you are doing.

[JimS]

New routine week 1.
Monday: 5k row. (Max effort)
Target 17:50.
Actual 17:49.0 at 1.46.9

Decided to ramp up rather than go straight for the PB again after deload last week, so technically not a max effort. Will work back to it over the next few weeks.

Additionally. Played with the force curve thing during warm up. My stroke is a bit of a mess (At least at slower paces) seems better on a few hard strokes.

Also. Was reading someone else here and now figure that I'm using the straps to pull myself back... is that bad? What else are they for then?

Either way. Suggests I have a lot more skill work to do. Will try and incorporate into warmups and my 2 x 4k sessions.

[lindsayh]

Also. Was reading someone else here and now figure that I'm using the straps to pull myself back... is that bad? What else are they for then? Either way. Suggests I have a lot more skill work to do. Will try and incorporate into warmups and my 2 x 4k sessions.

If you are straining against the straps Jim then that is wasting the power which should be used on the drive of the legs away from the plates. The straps do help keep your feet on the plates but the feet need to be as "connected" to the plates as possible to maximise the watts on the drive. Including strapless steady state sessions in the plan is a good idea to improve technique and the way your feet engage - they should be stable on the plate transferring the power.

[JimS]

Also. Was reading someone else here and now figure that I'm using the straps to pull myself back... is that bad? What else are they for then? Either way. Suggests I have a lot more skill work to do. Will try and incorporate into warmups and my 2 x 4k sessions.

If you are straining against the straps Jim then that is wasting the power which should be used on the drive of the legs away from the plates. The straps do help keep your feet on the plates but the feet need to be as "connected" to the plates as possible to maximise the watts on the drive. Including strapless steady state sessions in the plan is a good idea to improve technique and the way your feet engage - they should be stable on the plate transferring the power.

It's only a little at the end of the stroke.

So how does the physics work? How do you move your body towards the wheel if you aren't pulling with your feet? Every force. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

[Tenshuu]

Also. Was reading someone else here and now figure that I'm using the straps to pull myself back... is that bad? What else are they for then? Either way. Suggests I have a lot more skill work to do. Will try and incorporate into warmups and my 2 x 4k sessions.

If you are straining against the straps Jim then that is wasting the power which should be used on the drive of the legs away from the plates. The straps do help keep your feet on the plates but the feet need to be as "connected" to the plates as possible to maximise the watts on the drive. Including strapless steady state sessions in the plan is a good idea to improve technique and the way your feet engage - they should be stable on the plate transferring the power.

It's only a little at the end of the stroke.

So how does the physics work? How do you move your body towards the wheel if you aren't pulling with your feet? Every force. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

The slide on the rower tilts forward slightly naturally, your weight and the forward reach toward the catch will bring you forward without pulling on the straps - without a doubt slower than pulling yourself by your toes, but you will naturally slide forward without pulling yourself.


I just did my first 1000m PB, I used straps during that, but 99% of my training is with straps completely loose (but still a little hanging out of the buckle, I don't pull them completely apart). I do my PB trials fully strapped in.

At the end of the drive there shouldn't be any lift from the foot plates. I actually learned my stroke best strapless at around 16 SPM. You take a long recovery at that rate, but play with the power of your stroke at that pace, until you feel firmly planted at the end of the drive without lifting off at all. I try to imagine the direction of my power through the balls of my feet.

Hope this helps with getting a feel for an efficient leg drive without straps. Others might have better ideas or different ways that they worked through the feeling. Just worked for me.

[lindsayh]

So how does the physics work? How do you move your body towards the wheel if you aren't pulling with your feet? Every force. Equal and opposite reaction and all that.

If you search this forum for strapless you will see heaps of references which will help sort it out.