Rojabo Training

[PaulG]

Thanks for the clarification. I will read if for the third time.

[sander]

Nav, those links were very informative. High intensity plans seem to be best for people with limited time to train.

Speaking of which I did my first Rojabo workout and it had an index of 359 (3x 6 min row, with 3 min rest periods). Intervals were done at rates of 22/24/26 spm at paces that were equivalent for me of 2k pace plus 5.5 secs, 2k plus 3.5, 2k plus 1.5. I think most people would agree that was a hard one. On the first two I was slightly slower than the pace (1-2 secs) but met the ratings. The last one was really tough and I decided just to hold the rating and let the pace take care of itself. Other than those exceptions and the fact that I doubled the rest periods it was successful. This was supposed to be an "aerobic capacity" workout but my HR was near 170 after the second interval.

Any crticism that Rojabo is easy is not valid. I don't see another workout like that until Oct 16 and that has an index of 586. I may take up golf before that. I'll check in again after a week of training. This is challenging but I like it. It's entirely possible that the WP work I did this summer is helping me on this training plan.

My first "on the ergometer" Rojabo workout today: 3x(2min+2min+1min) at 24/28/32 spm, 2k pace plus 5sec, 2k plus 2 sec, 2k minus 1sec. Three minutes rest periods. Index 436 points. It was pretty hard to hit the target Watts in the third interval. In the end, my average was 10W below the target. Felt bad about that, but noticed that in distance rowed the difference was just a boat length with the two other intervals. Heart rate well above 180 bpm after the last interval. This was a "B" training (Aerobic power) and it was hard for me. I was supposed to do it yesterday but swapped it because yesterday I trained on the water in the double with an untrained fellow. On Friday, I did a 20 min 20 stroke per minute row on the water, which was a nice technical training, still hitting quite high heart rates.

I 515 point "B" training coming up on wednesday and a 665p "D" on Friday. Curious to see how that will go, but no at all confident I'll finish ...

According to the schedule, I am in a heavy week, but this is just as much psychological training as physical exercise.

[PaulG]

SNIP I 515 point "B" training coming up on wednesday and a 665p "D" on Friday. Curious to see how that will go, but no at all confident I'll finish ...

According to the schedule, I am in a heavy week, but this is just as much psychological training as physical exercise.

Sander:

I really think you should take the rest you need to finish. Extend the rest periods if you have to, but finish the work out. Right now my back still hurts from deficiency in my form. I was nailing it too hard at the catch, possibly due to too low of a DF as suggested by Nav. So Rojabo is suspended as I do easy distance pieces just to maintain some conditioning. Your first session sounded like a tough one with two more coming up. What DF do you use, and are you a LWT also?

Paul

[sander]

I really think you should take the rest you need to finish. Extend the rest periods if you have to, but finish the work out. Right now my back still hurts from deficiency in my form. I was nailing it too hard at the catch, possibly due to too low of a DF as suggested by Nav. So Rojabo is suspended as I do easy distance pieces just to maintain some conditioning. Your first session sounded like a tough one with two more coming up. What DF do you use, and are you a LWT also?

Paul

Drag factor 106. I used to be a lightweight, but currently I am around 77kg.

I found the rest periods very short. I am used to 5min rest periods. I usually do easy rowing during the rest period, and that's what I did.

Tomorrow I'll do a 3 x (4min + 4min)/3 spm: 24/26 in the single on the water. I will have no way to check if my Watts are right. I just have a StrokeCoach and a heartrate monitor. It's a 515p training so I guess it's supposed to be quite heavy.

[sander]

Wednesday I did 3x(4min + 4min)/3 at 24spm/26spm in the single. Nice training, not sure if I hit the prescribed Watts.

This morning 2x(6min + 6min + 6min)/4 at 20/22/26 spm. This was clearly to heavy for me. I stuck to the spm and let the pace go. Ended up doing about 20W lower than prescribed. It's supposed to be a "D" training (endurance).

My Rojabo power guide starts 50W lower than what is suggested by the Concept2 interactive training plan. The watts that I was supposed to do today are in the "TR" range of what the Concept2 interactive training plan suggests, based on my

Do other rojabo users have the same experience? Is this normal? Will it settle once I redo the tests?

[NavigationHazard]

It also should 'settle' as you get more used to the workouts, and the stroke rates at your recommended target watts/paces. Because the recommended rates are all even numbers, I find it useful to think in terms of 30-second blocks: 10 strokes every 30 seconds at 20 at target watts/pace, 11 every 30 seconds at 22, etc. I find this helps me stick quite closely to my targets. Perhaps you might try the same, if you're not already doing so. Matching music to your target rating also isn't a bad idea. If you're really obsessive about it, set up a virtual drum machine to give you exactly the beats/minute you want. It'll be boring sonically but no worse than your average Justin Bieber-fueled spin class in a gym.

[sander]

It also should 'settle' as you get more used to the workouts, and the stroke rates at your recommended target watts/paces. Because the recommended rates are all even numbers, I find it useful to think in terms of 30-second blocks: 10 strokes every 30 seconds at 20 at target watts/pace, 11 every 30 seconds at 22, etc. I find this helps me stick quite closely to my targets. Perhaps you might try the same, if you're not already doing so. Matching music to your target rating also isn't a bad idea. If you're really obsessive about it, set up a virtual drum machine to give you exactly the beats/minute you want. It'll be boring sonically but no worse than your average Justin Bieber-fueled spin class in a gym.

Thanks. I do listen to music. I did count to 26 in the last minute and managed to get down to the target watts, but that was more like a sprint at the end.

I don't know who Justin Bieber is, but I understand I haven't missed anything. I do not count the strokes but I might. Is it wrong to actually train below the target watts if you have the feeling the workout is pretty good? I wouldn't think so. Actually, I would think keeping an eye on the HR and listening to your body is a must. The rojabo plan doesn't know about the rest of your life. For example, I might have caught a cold, or have a heavy week at work. As long as you don't fool yourself and only do 'easy' stuff, it should be all right. Then the next series of tests should settle the disconnect. Anyway, I am planning a 2k test with/against a rowing buddy next Friday, so that will also demonstrate whether rojabo rightly predicted my current 2k abilities.

[NavigationHazard]

Cheers - just to avoid confusion, when you say you're "lower" than your targets you mean something like "rowing at 300w" rather than "rowing at 320w"?

I'd actually be interested to know what the 'official' Rojabo thinking is on doing a workout that's slower than your targets. Offhand I would guess that a lot will depend on how/why you end up slower. As you suggest, life sometimes interrupts training and there are days when some workout or other just isn't going to happen. To my mind that's a rather different thing than chronic inability to hit targets. Were I coaching you I'd back you off for the day in the first case and chalk it up to 'stuff happens.' If you consistently struggle, I'd adjust the targets and/or change the workout volume and/or change the workout schedule. Because Rojabo works with micro- and meso-cycles, you do need to think about any competition goals you've entered into your profile. It's also maybe worth tweaking your profile to give you more rest somewhere during the week.

I wouldn't worry about comparing your target watts/paces to the C2 Interactive plan's. Duration, rating, rest, and training cycle always need to be considered if comparisons are to be particularly meaningful.

[sander]

Cheers - just to avoid confusion, when you say you're "lower" than your targets you mean something like "rowing at 300w" rather than "rowing at 320w"?

Indeed, rowing 260W instead of 280W.
I am my own coach, which of course isn't ideal. But then I am not an elite athlete. I haven't done Rojabo long enough to determine if this is something structural or just to be attributed to a bad day. Next week's trainings look a bit easier.

As far as the "events" are concerned, I use the date of the national Masters championships next year July and the World Rowing Masters Regatta in Poznan. It may be too far out in the future. However, my only really important winter 'event' is "Jizerska 50", a 50km cross country skiing event early January.

[sander]

Today I did a 10min/3 + 6min/3 + 4min/3 + 2min
spm: 22/24/28/32 which I could do easily at about 5W above the target and the training felt 'right'. It must really have been some end-of-a-hard-week dip or something else. My wife is ill, so perhaps a virus was temporarily reducing also my fitness. Or perhaps I got used to the routine. I did really enjoy the 6min at 24spm. It felt great.

If someone's interested, I'll report next week after a full week of Rojabo.

So I am happy again, like this guy:

robin_erg.jpg (199.95 KiB) Viewed 6563 times

[PaulG]

Nice picture! Keep the updates coming, I'm interested in you rprogress. I did a similar workout last week and it was successful. However, right now I have suspended Rojabo training due to a sore back. Instead I am doing longer easy distance trying to get my force curve more symmetrical. When I did some of the more intense Rojabo workouts my force curve peak early and then dropped off, sometimes with a plateau at the end as I finshed off with my arms. Not very pretty. This probably contributed to me back soreness. What does your force curve look like during an intense wokout?

[sander]

What does your force curve look like during an intense workout?

I don't know. I row on a model C with a PM2 monitor. I think the rojabo low rate exercises have forced me to make more quality strokes. Now and then I row on a model D. My force curve is a bit too high at the catch. Otherwise, it looks fine.

[sander]

Today 3x(5min+5min)/3 at 20/22spm. I hit it within 5 Watt of the target on average. I don't use the Watt scale during the row any more. I stick to the 500m split times. It's less accurate but to me that's an advantage. At least in my rowing there is some variation from stroke to stroke, and it is more obvious and annoying to me when I look at the Watt scale.

The training was quite doable, except for the last 5 minutes where I rowed 2secs slower (per 500m) than I was supposed to. Wednesday will be 3x8min 24spm on the water. I've changed the span on my single to 158cm so now I have exactly the same rigging on the single and the double. Looking forward to it. On the water is so much more fun than in the basement.

[sander]

Wednesday: 3x8min/3 in 24spm on the water
Friday: 20min/3+10min 20/22 spm on the water
Today on the erg:
6min/3 + 4min/3 + 4min/3 + 4min
spm: 24/28/30/32
574p

I managed to hit the target watts and stroke frequency for the first three intervals but the last one was horror. Rowing like a windscreen wiper at 32spm and barely holding the pace of the 28 spm interval. Ended up rowing only 4m further than the 28spm interval.

I did keep the breaks short.

And apart from the last interval, I did enjoy the training.

[PaulG]

Sander's experience brings up a question I have for the received wisdom of the board. Sooner or later we all have a workout that is difficult or impossible to finish at the targeted rate, pace or rest periods. So what do you do?

1. Take the rest needed to finish?
2. Keep the rate and let the pace take care of itself?
3. Aim for the target pace at whatever rate is necessary?

Option 1 ignores the rest periods, option 2 ignores pace, and option 3 ignores rate. I go for option 1.

Or ignore the erg and row for an hour OTW like I did today. Probably the last row of the season and it didn't do my back any good.

Paul