The Two Types of Training

[whp4]

Just found this video showing what some lucky folks in Ann Arbor are likely to experience with our hero in their 8!

[johnlvs2run]

Oh I see, my 2k+5.3 is slow;

but Benton's 2k+13.2 shows he's the greatest, not slow at all.

In fact if he did the HM even slower, this would indicate that he was even faster and greater!

[whp4]

Oh I see, my 2k+5.3 is slow;

The lightbulb is starting to glow, albeit very dimly.

Yes, John, you are slow, at all distances, even for a short skinny old guy. Take solace in your running, where you aren't.

[johnlvs2run]

Oh gee, if only I was 6' 9 and 280 pounds I'd be "fast", on a rowing machine.

[NavigationHazard]

One more time. What part of "no one in recorded history has ever rowed farther/faster for one hour than Graham Benton" is so frickin' difficult? That makes him the best at 60'. Period. If someone else ever comes along and rows farther/faster for an hour s/he will displace Benton as the best. Until then he is the best at 60'.

His 2k is his own WR for 60' minus 13.2 seconds. It's also your precious Ebbesen's 2k PB minus something like 4 1/2.

OTOH your >2k< PB is Benton's WR for >60'< PLUS something. That should tell you something about who's fast and who's slow.

And I reiterate. Graham Benton is neither 6' 9" tall nor anywhere even close to 280 lbs.

[johnlvs2run]

And if I'd averaged 2:05 for a halfmarathon, instead of 1:57.7.

Then I'd be "fast."

Because then I'd be slower, but slower is faster, get it.

[pmacaula]

This thread feels like an even more twisted version of the Kurt Vonnegut short story "Harrison Bergeron".

Cheers. Patrick.

[chgoss]

Graham Benton
6'6, 102kg (224lbs)
http://concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0&start=30

actually, a pretty skinny dude for being that tall.. I'm 6'2" 205.. need to update my signature..

[ranger]

The weight adjustment for GB is about six seconds per 500m, relative to a lightweight, so GB's heavyweight 1:39 for 60min, adjusted for weight, is right about comparable to Freed's lightweight 1:45 for 60min.

At his prime, Eskild did five seconds per 500m better than that.

As I mentioned, I suspect that this is a problem of getting the rate up for distance rowing.

If GB could learn to row with a lighter stroke and higher rate over long distances, he might do 19K for 60min.

But to do that at 10 MPS, he would have to rate 32 spm (1:34).

At 10 MPS, Freed only had to rate 28.5 spm (1:45).

Then again, Freed was a lot older.

At 10 MPS, Eskild (at his prime) had to rate 30 spm (1:40).

At 10 MPS, the best 55s lwts at the moment rate 27 spm (1:51).

At 10 MPS, my goal is to rate 29 spm (1:43) as a lightweight when I'm 60.

That's 11 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

Yep.

My anaerobic threshold now is 1:44 @ 26 spm (12 SPI).

Right on my target.

HR at 172 bpm.

No aerobic distress at all.

Relaxed business.

Now, I just have to keep doing it, groovin' to the movin'.

When all is said and done, I think I'll do it for a HM.

Great stuff.

When I get OTW today (It is going to be 80 degrees F. in Ann Arbor), I'll just do this cadence there, too.

26 spm is perfect for everyday rowing.

Rate is low enough to work on technique on every stroke.

Checking this, checking that.

Roll up on the toes at the catch?

Full leg extension before swinging my back?

Firm heel plant on the big leg extension?

Firm heel plant on the recovery of the back?

Hands low and quick over the knees on the recovery?

Chain level at the finish?

Seat tucked up to my heels at the catch?

Shoulders relaxed at the catch?

Arms relaxed on the leg drive?

Etc.

For this sort of distance rowing, which is not low rate at all, 12 SPI is a spectacular stroking power for my age and weight.

My training has been perfect.

PaulS has his rowers do distance work, 1:55 @ 26 spm (10 MPS, 8.7 SPI), rather than 1:44 @ 26 spm (12 SPI), as I am doing.

Sorry, but that's just rowing like shit.

No reason to _practice_ rowing like shit.

Lord.

PaulS doesn't give his rowers a foundation rowing at high stroking powers and low rates before he has them doing distance rowing with a light stroke at 10 MPS.

This is a mistake, I think.

On this point, Mike C. is right.

Learn how to row first.

Be as effective as you can.

Then lighten up and raise the rate, shifting into a cadence at 10 MPS over long distances at a second stage of your rowing, in order to learn how to be maximally efficient.

When you can be both, you are rowing well.

I now row well.

ranger

[ranger]

The 60s lwt race at WIRC 2010 was won in 7:03.6.

1:44 @ 26 SPM covers each 2K in 6:56.

For this year at WIRC, then, a HM of 1:44 @ 26 spm would be 10 x hammer 2K, no rest, winning each 2K race by 7.6 seconds.



HM is done at 2K + 11.



The 60s lwt WR for a HM is 1:54.

For WIRC 2011, I will be 60.

I am now at weight (and will stay there all year).

ranger

[ranger]

I suspect that most Open lightweights don't have an anaerobic threshold any higher than 172 bpm (with a resting HR of 40 spm).

Downright freaky for a 60-year-old.

It is always smart to pick your parents well.



Thanks, Dad.

Thanks, Mom.

Genetics.

Gotta love it.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Just found this video showing what some lucky folks in Ann Arbor are likely to experience with our hero in their 8!

You beat me to the punch!


I was going to title it: Eight ranger clones OTW. .........

Next up Ursula Grobler and her millions of meters OTErg

[hjs]

Oh I see, my 2k+5.3 is slow;

but Benton's 2k+13.2 shows he's the greatest, not slow at all.

yes and yes

[hjs]

I suspect that most Open lightweights don't have an anaerobic threshold any higher than 172 bpm (with a resting HR of 40 spm).

Downright freaky for a 60-year-old.

It is always smart to pick your parents well.



Thanks, Dad.

Thanks, Mom.

Genetics.

Gotta love it.

ranger

Dr. Fritz Hagerman, an exercise physiologist at Ohio University, said he had learned from more than three decades of studying world class rowers that the whole idea of a formula to predict an individual's maximum heart rate was ludicrous. Even sillier, he said, is the common notion that the heart rate is an indication of fitness.

Some people get blood to their muscles by pushing out large amounts every time their hearts contract, he said. Others accomplish the same thing by contracting their hearts at fast rates. As a result, Dr. Hagerman said, he has seen Olympic rowers in their 20's with maximum heart rates of 220. And he has seen others on the same team and with the same ability, but who get blood to their tissues by pumping hard, with maximum rates of just 160.