Ranger's training thread

[Nosmo]

It will end when he stops getting responses to it. [....]

The truth of the matter is that none of us want this to end... it's a soap opera.[....]

Should have written "if" not "when".

Well for me at least this is kind of like eating junk food. I don't really want to eat it and don't feel particularly good afterwards, but occasionally I do anyway. So actually I would be quite happy if it ended. No more temptation.

If TSO had to learn how to row on slides he would. But you would still win the 5K (there are enough other mistakes to make besides hitting the ends) And you would still be much faster OTW.

Agree with everything you wrote.

Nice job again in NJ.

[ranger]

I am not going to ask for verification of any of his workouts any longer as Rich has clearly established a pattern of non-compliance with all requests for details of workouts.

The only workouts you recognize are rows against the clock.

I have done lots of those workouts, and will do lots of those workouts in the future--but I haven't been doing any of those workouts lately.

Lately, I have been "drilling" on technique--effectiveness and efficiency.

Most 60s lwts race at 9 SPI.

You're not going anywhere very fast at 9 SPI.

The best 60s lwt 2K last year was 7:02.

At 9 SPI, that's 34 spm.

That is ineffective and inefficient rowing.

As a 60s lwt, I will race at 12-13 SPI when I am 60.

The "drilling" I have been doing is what has enabled this.

Back in 2003, I raced at 10.5 SPI.

If I had continued to row that way, eight years later, I would now be pulling 9 SPI like everyone else.

So let's see whether what I have have giving as "training tips" is useful or not.

Check the 55s and 60s lwt rankings next April.

And the 55s and 60s lwt (and hwt?) WRs.

ranger

[ranger]

What we have is a gifted athlete who is psychologically suited to beating himself to death on a piece of gym equipment to get close to an obscure WR (for his age and weight) times for 2k... That is all. It isn't easy to do.

Gifted athlete?

Nah.

I've done lots of sports (football, baseball, basketball, skating, cross country, track, swimming, canoeing, marathon running, etc.), but have been just average in all of them.

I ran 2:50 for a FM; you ran 2:20.

You're the gifted athlete.

No, my only virtues have been consistency over the years, some of the basic physical abilities needed for rowing, and originality in my training routines for erging.

From these few virtues, this year, I will re-write the lightweight veteran record books on the erg--permanently, forever.

BTW, this is a training forum for indoor rowing.

Yep, indoor rowing is about working hard, both skeletal-muscularly and physiologically, using your whole body, pulling the handle on that piece of gym equipment.

So it goes.

Most the age group WR-holders on the erg are not old foggie scullers like you at all, if they are OTW rowers at all.

Hendershott, Brook, Ripley, Fleming, Caviston, Watt, Castellan, Bailey, etc., have never done anything very distinguished in a 1x.

Many of these folks have never rowed OTW at all.

It is no accident that you haven't come within two seconds per 500m of a WR on the erg--and never will.

ranger

[ausrwr]

Rich, a few things before I go to the pub...

1: I may not have access to your 'proof' that you can row fast. That's fine. Neither do you. You have no proof that you can row fast. Self-belief is great, but not necessarily all that matters. I can tell myself I run faster than Usain Bolt as much as I want, but it doesn't mean that it's true.

2: Dietz might be able to row 1:56 for 5k. And probably can. What I was referring to is that you can't row 2:06 for 3 miles, or 5k, or 1k. It doesn't matter if you were rowing on 35 degree water, with stream, rating 50. You can't do 2:06, or 1:56, or whatever. And you don't.

3: Will I be rowing at 60? Will my mate? Well, I probably will. Not having achieved that much in rowing (though a little more than you) I'll keep going. My mate is a world champ, Olympian, all that sort of thing. She's done enough.

4: You are a good athlete, but not as good as you think. A good lightweight (like you think you are) will happily knock out a sub 33 10k running (judged on my experience of lightweights), or be ridiculously quick on the bike. Your just-sub-3-hours marathon while you were running 60 - 80 miles a week indicates that you are not of that calibre.

5: You are an idiot. You have no idea how fast the people you are intending to race (and denigrating relentlessly) are. Assuming that you turn up at an OTW race, they will make you look like the fool that you are.

6: All this is a moot point. You won't turn up at a race OTW this, or any other, year. If you were as good as you say, you'd be falling over yourself to prove it.

7: Why are you doing this to yourself? You are missing out on every positive aspect of rowing and competition. The mutual respect, the hard-earned beers after the race, the chance to compare yourself. The way you can train on your own and have no respect for anyone is utterly terrifying.

[ranger]

You are an idiot.

Yea.

Being physically active your whole life is considered idiotic.

It will be interesting to see what you think about this over the next thirty years and therefore the position you will find yourself in physically when you are 60.

Good luck with it.



My position plysically at 60 is a fait accompli.

What you think you will do physically over the next 30 years is just hypothetical.

No proof for it yet at all.

At BIRC 2010, when I am 60, I will be a 10% body fat lightweight trying to pull sub-6:20.

When you are 60, if you are still racing on the erg at all, I suspect you will approach the norm.

You will be a 30% body fat couch potato, trying to pull 6:40.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

How's that 80 x 250m @ 1:32 r38/paddle a 250 coming? Managed two reps yet? You might want to try 1:42 pace first, though I'm not sure you can handle that.

Me, I just did 40 x 250 r33/1' rest. No extra break between reps 30 and 31 - I used a countdown timer to run off the minute while I reset the monitor.






That's 1:35.4 average for the forty reps. On the consistency front, note that 38 of them were 1:35.8-1:36.0 pace. I admit that rep #5 was an anomaly at 1:35.4 pace. Note also the lumpy last rep.....

[ranger]

BTW, when he is 60, NavHaz will also have trouble pulling 6:40.

He'll have trouble pulling 6:30 this year, when he will be 55.

And the age brackets, on the whole, are separated by about 10 seconds over 2K.

ranger

[ranger]

How's that 80 x 250m @ 1:32 r38/paddle a 250 coming? Managed two reps yet? You might want to try 1:42 pace first, though I'm not sure you can handle that.

Me, I just did 40 x 250 r33/1' rest. No extra break between reps 30 and 31 - I used a countdown timer to run off the minute while I reset the monitor.






That's 1:35.4 average for the forty reps. On the consistency front, note that 38 of them were 1:35.8-1:36.0 pace. I admit that rep #5 was an anomaly at 1:35.4 pace. Note also the lumpy last rep.....

Nice.

Now, you just need to match that with a FM, 1:48 @ 22 spm, a HM 1:45 @ 24 spm, and 10K, 1:42 @ 26 spm.

Then you awill be home free.

WR

ranger

[ranger]

Nav--

When will you get smart about your training?

You only get better by improving your UT rowing.

You only get better by working on your weaknesses.

For veterans, you only get better by working on your technical effectiveness and efficiency.

Your aerobic capacity is declining.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Yawn. I rowed a factual continuous 18k in my Maas this morning, including two 5k pieces r24 and a low-rate/high power 20 strokes on/20 off set r18. My UT capabilities are just dandy, actually....

What training didn't YOU do today? Oh wait. Anything that might smack of reality.

[aharmer]

Because I'm willing to waste a little time now and then, I'll ask you again. What distance trials and/or interval workouts do you plan to do and post screenshots of prior to your September 1st 2k trial? What dates will these pieces come? You only seem to respond to posts calling you names. Why can't you respond to this simple request? You're either going to do some specific timed workouts prior to September 1st that you can post here, or you are not. Which is it? Just don't lie anymore. If you're not going to do them, just tell us you're not going to do them. If you're not going to do the 2k September 1st, just tell us.

Either way would you please respond to this post? I need to know whether I need to continue looking in on this ridiculous mess. By September 1st if there are no screenshots of workouts or 2k you'll lose one of your audience for good.

[ranger]

You are a good athlete, but not as good as you think.

I am not making any claim to any unusual athletic ability overall. Clearly, I am just a mediocre athlete.

I am certainly not making any claim to any unusual effectiveness and efficiency as a rower.

Sure, at this late date, I am trying to learn to row well, both OTW and off, but by personal history, I am a non-rower.

Over my lifetime, my major sports have been running, swimming, and canoeing.

My claim is that I just haven't declined very much physically with age, and given this, my attraction to sports and physical activity is still as high as when I was younger.

Both OTErg and OTW, younger OTW rowers beat most 60s OTW rowers by 15 seconds per 500m.

That's a lot, in and around three seconds per 500m per decade.

OTErg, some non-rowers have reduced this physical decline with age by 1/3 to 10 seconds per 500, in and around two seconds per 500m per decade.

I am just another of these non-rowers.

If I pull a lwt 6:16 at 60 OTErg, I will reduce this physical decline with age by another 1/3, to less than five seconds per 500m, right around a second per 500m per decade.

Whether I can do this or not doesn't have much at all to do with any unusual athletic ability or any unusual skill as a rower.

I am just a 60-year-old who still has some of the physical capacities, interests, and habits of a pretty good 30-year-old (or _very_ good 40-year-old).

Mike VB claims that to be like me physically when you are 60 is easy.

Indeed.

It's fun, too, if you like physical activity.

ranger

[ranger]

If I just start out easy and row at 20 spm or so, slowly building the rate to 24 spm, and slowly pushing my HR from 130 spm, to 140 bpm, to 150 bpm, to 160 bpm, right up to my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm), at some point, I arrive naturally at 1:44 @ 24 spm and then hold it there.

Delighted with this.

For a lightweight of any age, 1:44 @ 24 spm is perfect everyday rowing.

According to the IP plan, 24 spm is top-end UT1 rate, and 1:44 @ 24 spm is 13 SPI, the ideal stroking power for a lightweight.

For me, the added bonus is that, again according to the IP plan, 1:44 @ 24 is top-end UT1 for a 6:16 2K, right on my 2K target.

Well!

Clearly:

No more futzing with technique is needed.

I am now rowing perfectly (13 SPI) at low drag (120 df.), and not just at low rates.

Now, I just need to keep doing it.

30K a day would be a maximum, I think.

This is Caviston's Level 3 rowing.

For Level 3 rowing, Caviston likes to start at 12K in September and build up to 30K by February.

This year, that might be a good thing for me to try, too.

No need to push it, either in any individual session, or as the days, weeks, and months go by.

I just need to relax, let things happen naturally, and slowly push up the distance covered and time spent.

Back in 2003, I usually rowed about 1:54 @ 24 spm (10 SPI), that is, about 10 seconds per 500m slower at the same rate.

That's the problem with neglecting your biggest levers (your legs) and rowing with your back and arms, dragging your legs behind.

Sure, OTErg, you can do it, and you can go pretty darn fast if you jack up the rate.

But in the end, there are much better ways to get the job done.

OTW, you _have_ to use your legs as your primary and initial levers.

OTW, you can't yank the oars with your back and arms at the catch, much less jack up the rate while doing so.

If you do, you will need to practice flip turns and the back stroke, too.

When you row OTW, you will spend most of your time in the water--swimming.

As I did.

ranger

[ranger]

Yawn..My UT capabilities are just dandy, actually....

Really?

To set the 55s hwt WR, you will have to do 60min, 1:44 @ 24 spm.

Can you?

Krum's 50s hwt WR is 1:46 pace.

If you _can_ do 60min, 1:44 @ 24, why not do it and snatch the record?

If you _can_ do 60min, 1:44 @ 24 spm, the 55s hwt 2K record is yours.

Piece of cake.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, if I really get so that I am doing all of my day-to-day distance rowing at 13 SPI and 24 spm, I might very well pull 13 SPI for 2K when I race.

Wow.

That would be ideal, too.

At 13 SPI, 1:34/6:16 for 2K is only 32 spm.

And right on 10 MPS.

Perfect rowing.

Or, um, should I say, erging, to be more precise?

Yea, yea, yea, yea.

You'all are right.

Ergs don't float.

But they are neat little contraptions, I think, especially if you are interested in rowing OTW, too--as I am.

ranger