How many coffee breaks are alowed during that HM ?chgoss wrote: A 6:30 2k predicts a 1:20:30 HM (1:54.5)
bit slow eh. An average 6.30 erger will quite a bit faster[/quote]What is your source for your repeated statements that a lightweight should pull 13 SPI and a heavyweight should pull 16 SPI? Trevor has already pointed out the sheer nonsense of the statement. If you don't mean to suggest anything so simplistic or, frankly, preposterous on its face, why would you keep repeating it?ranger wrote:A lightweight who rows well technically pulls 13 SPI (a heavyweight, 16 SPI) pretty easily and naturally, even if they don't do it by preference (for other reasons) when they race.
For me the same, I started erging relative trained and fit.chgoss wrote:You think so? I'm not so convinced that technique in erging makes all that much difference.. I still struggle to get a sub 38 10k, which I did 3 month's after starting erging, and I work (fairly) hard on technique (row strapless, legs-back-arms..). My technique might not be good, but it's certainly better..tdekoekkoek wrote:OK. You're both wrong (and partially right). First of all I agree with Ranger, technique is a huge part of erging. I watch people erging and 90% of them have huge improvements they should make. And usually these are people that have been rowing for a long time. The mistakes they make are being compounded with continuous bad rowing, making correcting that much harder.
When we go to NE2KC at Rick's place, you can critique my erging and give me that extra 10seconds I need
Sure, first, the issue is "knowing" what to do in order to row well.chgoss wrote:You think so? I'm not so convinced that technique in erging makes all that much difference.. I still struggle to get a sub 38 10k, which I did 3 month's after starting erging, and I work (fairly) hard on technique (row strapless, legs-back-arms..). My technique might not be good, but it's certainly better..tdekoekkoek wrote:OK. You're both wrong (and partially right). First of all I agree with Ranger, technique is a huge part of erging. I watch people erging and 90% of them have huge improvements they should make. And usually these are people that have been rowing for a long time. The mistakes they make are being compounded with continuous bad rowing, making correcting that much harder.
When we go to NE2KC at Rick's place, you can critique my erging and give me that extra 10seconds I need
Yes, of course.tdekoekkoek wrote:I agree with Ranger, technique is a huge part of erging. I watch people erging and 90% of them have huge improvements they should make. And usually these are people that have been rowing for a long time. The mistakes they make are being compounded with continuous bad rowing, making correcting that much harder.
ranger wrote: Sure, first, the issue is "knowing" what to do in order to row well.
But the main issue is _doing_ it--easily, naturally, automatically, unconsciously, etc.
That is another matter entirely.
That takes training, often a _lot_ of training.
As I said, it is easy to check if you are rowing well.
If you are a normal lightweight, weighing around 165 lbs., you are rowing well when you pull 13 SPI with just a natural motion.
If you are a normal heavyweight, weighing around 210 lbs., you are rowing well when you pull 16 SPI with just a natural motion.
If you are something other than these norms, you can moderate these standards.
If you are a light lightweight, say, 150 lbs., and you row well, you should pull 12 SPI with a natural motion.
If you a heavy lightweight, say, 180 lbs., and you row well, you should pull 14 SPI with a natural motion.
If you are a light heavyweight, say, 195 lbs., ands you row well, you should pull 15 SPI with a natural motion.
ranger
Well, if you do foundational rowing, learning to row well, and without even doing hard distance rowing or sharpening, pull a 2K that is three seconds faster than all of the others your age and weight in the world and only three seconds off of the WR in your age and weight division, as I did last year, you would have quite a bit of proof that things are working out just fine.kini63 wrote:And to that end I've decided I will forgo plans like Pete's or the wolverine and go for the Ranger plan...
I will train to row, row to train, learn to row, row to learn, reach for an unattainable goal like say 5:50 2K LTW, make it a 7 year plan, use LOTS of acronyms and philosophical ramblings, make numerous posts as to how close I am to my goal without having any proof and lastly make sure I take my anti psychosis meds (regularly).
I shall start tomorrow! Or maybe the day after. Well, maybe next year..
My suggestion is that rowing is primarily technical and skeletal-muscular, rather than aerobic.DUThomas wrote:Your ideas about training barely acknowledge the broad spectrum of abilities among people.
I started working on foundational rowing (technique and stroking power) in 2003 and have worked on it continuously since then, both OTW and on the erg.kini62 wrote:I shall start tomorrow! Or maybe the day after. Well, maybe next year....
Unfortunately, in order to provide_full_ proof that any new mode of training is effective, you need to complete the training.kini62 wrote:without having any proof
Well, there is no mystery to it, if you train well--starting with appropriate foundational work, and not moving on to distance rowing and sharpening until you reach your goals.hjs wrote:For me the same, I started erging relative trained and fit.chgoss wrote:You think so? I'm not so convinced that technique in erging makes all that much difference.. I still struggle to get a sub 38 10k, which I did 3 month's after starting erging, and I work (fairly) hard on technique (row strapless, legs-back-arms..). My technique might not be good, but it's certainly better..tdekoekkoek wrote:OK. You're both wrong (and partially right). First of all I agree with Ranger, technique is a huge part of erging. I watch people erging and 90% of them have huge improvements they should make. And usually these are people that have been rowing for a long time. The mistakes they make are being compounded with continuous bad rowing, making correcting that much harder.
When we go to NE2KC at Rick's place, you can critique my erging and give me that extra 10seconds I need
On the 2k I pulled a 6.39 the second time I erged,
pulled 6.31 6 weeks later
6.19 after 3 months
and my pb 6.14 2 years later.
This was in my early 30's, It was certainly not my technique that held me back. At least that's what I think.
And when I come to think of it, I now row a lot strapless and the other day I looked in the mirror and saw that my stroke is very short at backstops, to short I think, so working on technique, my stroke is smooth but I will stop rowing strapless, I think it has done more damage then good.
Strange thing, when I look in the mirror I don,t see a young man but a middle aged one.ranger wrote:
That means you should be able to train yourself to do 1:42 @ 22 spm at UT2, or low UT1, for a FM.
And if you do that, when you are fully trained, you'll pull 5:52 for 2K.
ranger
We together agains fat boy P hahahah