Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[mudgeg]

@ JohnAd - John, no, unfortunately didn't catch up with any of the guys on this thread. Happily I was in London anyway and had arranged to meet up with an old chum who rows on water and was there also, so it wasn't a complete right off. Unless you live in London though the Olympic Park is a hell of a trek - I am only an hour from Paddington but if you add in getting to the station, parking, tube across London and walk from Stratford it is over three hours travel! If I ever got fit enough to compete I wouldn't do the BRIC as I would need to get up about five in the morning just to get there!

@ Litewait - Tim, meant to say that I think your 'never HD' mantra is great. I think a lot of this indoor rowing is mental strength and I always try to finish a piece. I think Mike was right in that it will still sometime happen but that frame of mind is going to help a lot.

[Slacker]

Ben, nice 30, how did you find the rate restriction?

No, that wasn't rate restricted. That's my normal rate. I just looked back through the spreadsheet and from BPP week 1 day 1 (which I think was my 3rd day on the erg) to now, all of my SS rows have been right around r20. Fastest I've averaged for an entire session was the 500m intervals and that was only at r26.

I follow discussions on rates, like Glen and Mike's current one, when they come up. Maybe someone will point out the error of my ways. I suck way too much wind when I try to rate faster and I naturally settle into slower rates when not paying attention to the monitor. I feel cardio is my limiting factor for most sessions, but I know my strength is not what I want/need it to be either. I have no race or TT goals at the moment, just to improve. For these reasons I've seen no need to adjust rates so far.

[JohnAd]

Ben, my mistake, I think Pete does throw in a 30r20 in the BPP at some point. If it ain't broke don't fix it though I suppose. Without wishing to restart the whole debate, rowing strapless at lower drag helped me correct some basic errors with my stroke technique and as a result of that my rates drifted up a bit.

[jackarabit]

Slacker writes:

I feel cardio is my limiting factor for most sessions, but I know my strength is not what I want/need it to be either. I have no race or TT goals at the moment, just to improve. For these reasons I've seen no need to adjust rates so far.

No worries. Low rating builds stroke power, grooves a high recovery:drive ratio, facilitates long efforts while limiting fatigue to CV system. High ratings merely increase the frequency of application of effort at considerable expense to endurance and period of recovery. Training at low rates and racing at high rates is the usual and customary recommended trajectory. Power/endurance comes first. To everything there is a season. Racing season is the season of rating up.

[JohnAd]

Nice one Paul a couple of seconds faster than last time and your 2k time starts with a 7, congratulations.

[mdpfirrman]

Nice one Paul a couple of seconds faster than last time and your 2k time starts with a 7, congratulations.

Ditto! Nice work Paul. Now you have one monkey off your back. Your fitness is getting better and better. Keep it up! You and I will be pushing each other soon if you keep improving at this rate.

[JohnAd]

Good luck tomorrow John, will be thinking off you all the way

I'll be doing this pretty sub-maximally, was thinking of pacing it as 1:47,1:47,1:47,1:45 but could be slower as it's our office Christmas party tonight...

[Litewait]

BPP Week 17.2 8 x 500m r2' DF122

16:14.0 4,000m 2:01.7 194 967 31
2:03.9 500m 2:03.9 184 932 30 144
2:03.7 500m 2:03.7 185 936 30 148
2:03.8 500m 2:03.8 184 932 31 151
2:03.7 500m 2:03.7 185 936 31 151
2:01.9 500m 2:01.9 193 963 32 157
2:01.8 500m 2:01.8 194 967 31 156
2:00.8 500m 2:00.8 199 984 32 158
1:54.4 500m 1:54.4 234 1104 33 165

Protecting my back on the first four. Last two was the first time I really felt my legs driving me as opposed to my lungs, a good sign I guess.

@paul - congrats, speed keeps coming.

[mudgeg]

PP Beginners Week 15 Day 2

5 x 750m. Plan says target same pace as Week 13 4 x 1000 (1:59.0)

1. 2:55.0 / 750 / 1:56.6
2. 2:55.8 / 750 / 1:57.2
3. 2:55.1 / 750 / 1:56.7
4. 2:54.5 / 750 / 1:56.3
5. 2:50.3 / 750 / 1:53.5

[Litewait]

@gordon - nice job, care to share your SPM?

[mudgeg]

@Litewait - great session there Tim.

On spm, yes happy to share that but it's only an estimate because my gym only has one erg with a PM2, so I don't get the data. Mostly I have to keep split times and spm in my head as I go along. Anyway, on the 750m, I started off with a spm of around 26 but with a pretty strong drive so my split was around 1:58/2.00 for the first 250m. Then at 500m I started to rate up at around 32 for about 300m then as strong and as fast as I could for the last 200. I suspect the last 200 I was up in the high 30's spm.

On the long rows, like yesterday's 10000, I tend to row the first 500m of each 1000m at a slow spm - 22/24 - then rate up a bit for the second 500m but only to about 28 or so and then higher for the final sprint to the line. I just find that this adds a bit of variety and I also actually find my breathing is a bit more 'natural' if that's the right word at around 26/28 spm.

I have also done a lot strapless as it made a major difference to my technique and slowed down my spm dramatically. I row all my warm ups strapless too. Hope this helps but I have no idea whether it is 'right' or 'wrong', if indeed there is a distinction.

[mdpfirrman]

NIce work Tim / Gordon. Very strong last reps.

Today was TT day for me (PP W1 D5). I thought about what Glenn said. On a TT, I normally am around 24 or 25. I tried to hold 26 for a 30' row but could only hold 26 for around 4550 or so. Last 500 rate dropped to 24. I ended up just doing my "normal" 5K for day five of the plan. I decided, though, I'd take Glenn's advice and I think moving forward on my TT day, what I'll do is just do a row as long as I can hold 26 and stay under a 2:00 / 500 pace at the same time. As soon as either the pace goes over 2:00 or under 26, I'll finish the row. I know I can do around 5K that way but hopefully if I keep building up to 30' and beyond at a 26 pace, I think I might be able to hold 28/29 for a 2K.

[Street]

I have also done a lot strapless as it made a major difference to my technique and slowed down my spm dramatically. I row all my warm ups strapless too. Hope this helps but I have no idea whether it is 'right' or 'wrong', if indeed there is a distinction.

What are the benefits to strapless? Does it just help you get your technique better? I tried it a while back but couldn't do more than about 20 SPM without failing badly.. Which probably means I need to work on my technique!

I'm looking forward to a well earned rest day tomorrow as today was hard. I've realised I hate the time intervals, at least with distance intervals you can push harder to get it done quicker. The only thing that kept me going on the last rep was the thought of my Friday bacon butty treat!

BPP 14.5 4x8min/2min rest
8:00.0 / 1,958m / 2:02.5 / 23
8:00.0 / 1,976m / 2:01.4 / 24
8:00.0 / 2,011m / 1:59.3 / 24
8:00.0 / 2,091m / 1:54.7 / 25
Ave: 1:59.4

[mdpfirrman]

I have also done a lot strapless as it made a major difference to my technique and slowed down my spm dramatically. I row all my warm ups strapless too. Hope this helps but I have no idea whether it is 'right' or 'wrong', if indeed there is a distinction.

What are the benefits to strapless? Does it just help you get your technique better? I tried it a while back but couldn't do more than about 20 SPM without failing badly.. Which probably means I need to work on my technique!

I'm looking forward to a well earned rest day tomorrow as today was hard. I've realised I hate the time intervals, at least with distance intervals you can push harder to get it done quicker. The only thing that kept me going on the last rep was the thought of my Friday bacon butty treat!

BPP 14.5 4x8min/2min rest
8:00.0 / 1,958m / 2:02.5 / 23
8:00.0 / 1,976m / 2:01.4 / 24
8:00.0 / 2,011m / 1:59.3 / 24
8:00.0 / 2,091m / 1:54.7 / 25
Ave: 1:59.4

Nice work on the intervals Adam!

To answer your question, I started rowing strapless around a year ago. I had been rowing for a year by then. I'm not as strong (or young) as you but I thought I had pretty decent form and sequencing at the time (had even done my PB, which is a 7:19 by then). When I tried to go strapless, I would nearly fall back out of the seat every time.

What rowing strapless teaches (mainly to me) is you 1) have to get your hands back QUICKLY. If you're not doing this strapless, you are holding too long at the top of the finish and therefore wasting momentum. 2) When you row strapless, if you don't push off with your legs fully first before engaging your body and arms, you will also fall off backward. After the leg sequence (which is driving back), by pulling with your body first and then with your arms, it keeps you on the seat. Then again, if hands aren't out fast enough, you risk again falling off. I used to hit myself in the chest or sternum each stroke. That's not right. Your end of the finish should be quick but softened right as it approaches your chest (I think that's why some guys you see pull it up higher on their chest instead of to their sternum), nearly a feathered stroke because you have to get back very quickly to the catch unstrapped.

Rowing strapped lets you "cheat" a bit with using the foot straps to pull yourself back for the catch after the finish. You really shouldn't be using the straps to pull yourself back (and that's terrible for your feet). Actually, with proper form, your feet shouldn't rise off the pads that much (mine used to). By rowing strapless, you learn quick hands, then your core has to work a lot harder (it also made me realize how weak my core was) because the start of the catch is initiated by your arms and body (not cheating with your feet).

Gordon - you're doing it right! I do all my SS work and all my warm-ups / cool downs unstrapped. All speed work / TT should be strapped in.

Hope that helps. Once you start warming up and then gradually doing your SS work unstrapped, you will start seeing a better disciplined / consistent form. That consistency and understanding helps a LOT when it comes to racing (even when you are strapped back in).

[JohnAd]

Tim, Andy, Gordon some great sessions being posted. Good to see the gains still coming.

I wasn't feeling it at all today (a combination of one grappa too many last night, really stiff legs from kettlebell swinging yesterday and donating blood earlier) so bailed on my sub-max 2k session and just did 10k SS @ 2:05.7 r23 instead, MHR was up to 148 which is high for me.