The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Mike--

As you point out, there are lots of ways to row, and different ways for different folks, too.

You do what works for the purposes at hand.

What is perverse is doing something that doesn't work.

For the 2K on the erg, I will roll up on my toes, soften the catch and finish, and row at full slide.

But doing that over long distances is not as efficient as what you see in the video.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Mike--

As you pointed out, there are lots of ways to row, and different ways for different folks, too.

You do what works for the purposes at hand.

What interests me, Rich, is how each of us tries to deal with transitioning to the water after months of exclusive erging.
Some OTW coaches have even gone so far as to suggest that some scullers should not erg at all. That shocked me the first time I heard it!
My long post from earlier today had some thought in the same vein (at odds with what you seem to be saying above). I was trying to emphasize that we are unable to "do what works for the purposes at hand" because of what we've ingrained "in our muscle memory" (as leadville says)....

Of course, you may be more versatile than "the average bear"

'He may erg 'til June but
don't mistake his bark
it's his stroke that bites
in Rangerstone Park'

(all in fun)

I'm off to scull... today.
I did erg 15k yesterday.... it was windy and cool...

[ranger]

Mike--

As you pointed out, there are lots of ways to row, and different ways for different folks, too.

You do what works for the purposes at hand.

What interests me, Rich, is how each of us tries to deal with transitioning to the water after months of exclusive erging.
Some OTW coaches have even gone so far as to suggest that some scullers should not erg at all. That shocked me the first time I heard it!
My long post from earlier today had some thought in the same vein (at odds with what you seem to be saying above). I was trying to emphasize that we are unable to "do what works for the purposes at hand" because of what we've ingrained "in our muscle memory" (as leadville says)....

Of course, you may be more versatile than "the average bear"

'He may erg 'til June but
don't mistake his bark
it's his stroke that bites
in Rangerstone Park'

(all in fun)

I'm off to scull... today.
I did erg 15k yesterday.... it was windy and cool...

You are just talking about yourself, although this if fine, I guess.

As I said, given my prospects on the erg, for a couple more months, at least, and probably for another year (until I am 60), I am interested in erging in itself, independent of its use for OTW rowing.

So all of your comments about OTW rowing are misplaced here.

Please take them to the OTW thread.

For my age and weight, I think I have the opportunity of leaving a set of times over all distances on the erg that might never be bested.

That's an interesting goal to pursue, in and of itself.

People like Paul Hendershott, Andy Ripley, Brian Bailey, Tore Foss, Roy Brook, Mike Caviston, Graham Price, Jon Bone, Nik Fleming, and Dan Staite have left no record of achievement in a 1x, if they were ever in a 1x at all.

Yet for senior and veteran ergers, they are some of the shining lights in this sport.

This is a training forum for indoor rowing.

So your talking about yourself here is inappropriate, or only appropriate for a troll, if that's what you would like to be considered.

ranger

[ranger]

What interests me

Yes, given your limitations on the erg, how could it hold your interest?

For you, it is just a way to stay fit.

You have never been anywhere near setting a standard on the erg, much less setting a standard that might stand the test of time.

So erging for you is just a bore and a frustration.

So be it.

No need to parade your frustration and failure here.

ranger

[Citroen]

Well, if, starting from four seconds below the existing WR for 2K, the "tweaking" of my form on the erg which I have done over the last few years produces a six seconds per 500m improvement in my distance racing and a three second improvement in my 2K racing, even though I am now eight years older, I don't really care what effect it has on my OTW rowing.

Anyone know what language this is written in?

That is a much easier question than Nosmo's. The answer is Ranger-speak. It is a difficult language to master. It is replete with false friends and Malapropisms so the inexperienced often don't get the translation to ordinary English correct. Dougie and Nav are both qualified as translators.

I think the rough translation is "I've rowed like shit since 2003, I'm still rowing like shit and no matter what I've done this year my best was 6:41 and I'm unable to accept that I'm getting slower year after year."

Jon may be able to provide a better interpretation. I was tempted to convert it into braille then back into English via British Sign Language to see if I could weed the sense from it.

[whp4]

What interests me

Yes, given your limitations on the erg, how could it hold your interest?

For you, it is just a way to stay fit.

You have never been anywhere near setting a standard on the erg, much less setting a standard that might stand the test of time.

Well said by the guy who hasn't been setting standards for anything except DNS and DNF since 2003...

No need to parade your frustration and failure here.

Why shouldn't Mike have the same privilege as you regularly exercise? Not that he seems to need to do so nearly as often as you

[Byron Drachman]

Thurs Sept 14, 2006: When I am done with my distance raining (which, this time, is really just an exercise in learning to relax fully with my new technique), I will indeed do the HM and FM trials, and, yes, this will indeed indicate what I can row in the UT training bands--now, fully trained, with my new technique.

Oct 16, 2006: You'll soon see why. FM in 1:48, HM in 1:45--coming up soon, a product of this sort of training.

Oct 19, 2006: If this holds, and we will have to see if it does, because it seems too good to be true, (at the end of this racing season? next year?), if I work on distance rowing as a major focus, I might eventually be able to row a FM, 1:45 @ 24 spm.

Nov 26, 2006: Before EIRC, I think I will hit many of my targets, as many as I have time to concentrate on and do: 8 x 500m @ 1:32; 4 x 1K @ 1:35; 4 x 2K @ 1:38; 5K @ 1:39; 6K @ 1:40; 10K @ 1:42; 17K for 60min; HM @ 1:45; FM @ 1:48; etc. What targets I don't hit before EIRC, I will hit between EIRC and WIRC.

Nov 28, 2006: I am going to row a HM @ 1:45; a FM @ 1:48

Feb 20, 2007: Once I use my new stroke at all of the distances and am ready to race a 2K again, my racing will be consistent again--and quite a bit faster. I am just at stage 1 (stroking power and technique) in my training. Stage 2 (distance racing) coming up:
FM 1:48
HM 1:45
60min: 1:44
10K 1:42
30'r20: 1:46
6K: 1:40
5K: 1:39

March 2, 2007: FM, 1:48 @ 20 spm, I think, is in the bag. Just a matter of time (a month or so?), a little more training to get used to the distance.

March 21, 2007: First race, really, is a FM, in about three weeks or so.

March 29, 2007: I am doing a FM @ 1:48 in a month or so.

June 9, 2007: What seems to be in order now, at least occasionally, are FM rows, 1:47 @ 28 spm (10MPS), 95 df.

August 20, 2007: How about a FM, 1:48 @ 20 spm? Coming up!

September 19, 2007: Eventually, I will do a FM, 1:48 @ 19 spm.

November 26, 2007: Before long, I'll be doing a FM 1:48 @ 20 spm (14 SPI).

February 10, 2008: I will also get a lwt FM done this winter.

April 5, 2008: I am doing a FM trial at the end of the month. I'll do my FM trial at 22 spm.

April 30, 2008: As I train for a FM, 1:45 @ 22 spm, I will indeed step on those stones-- repeatedly. I thought I was only going to pull a FM @ 1:48. Now that 1:45 has become possible, the intermediate goals don't have to be races.

May 7, 2008: This month I will take a slap at the FM and 60min WRs for the 50s hwts.

December 20, 2008: I think I will pull a FM, 1:48 @ 24 spm (12 SPI), before New Years.

April 6, 2009: At the end of the month, I am going to try a FM, 1:48 @ 22 spm.

Dec 18, 2009: I'm lovin' 1:46 @ 26 spm, HR in and around 160 bpm. Relaxing stuff. Before this winter rowing season is done, I think I'll do it for a FM.

Dec 27, 2009: I'll race a FM over the next couple of weeks, before I go back to teaching on January 7th.

Feb 11, 2010: That means that within the month, I will row a FM @ 1:45 and 60min at 1:40.

March 24, 2010: To start off, I think I'll do a FM at 1:48.

[PaulH]

Absolute genius, Byron!

[ranger]

The FM stroke in the video, rating 24 spm, not even at full slide, my HR riding at 150 bpm, is as fast as Mike VB can row for 5K.

No wonder.

Mike's maxHR is 163 bpm, so 150 bpm is AT, well over his anaerobic threshold.

For me, 150 bpm is low UT1, just above top-end UT2.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

ranger

[lancs]

I think I will (x 40)

Brilliant Byron.

Care to respond Prof?

[ranger]

I think I will (x 40)

Brilliant Byron.

Care to respond Prof?

Not with words.

Just keep an eye on my signature, or the rankings for this year.

I'll list the results of my distance trials there.

ranger

[ranger]

I think I will (x 40)

Brilliant Byron.

Care to respond Prof?

Lancs--

What do you do for 1K in a 1x?

You won gold at BIRC, pulling sub-6:30 for 2K as a lightweight.

But can you row?

ranger

[ranger]

Why shouldn't Mike have the same privilege as you regularly exercise?

As I said, I would be delighted if Mike went over to the OTW thread and started a discussion about his OTW training for Nationals and HOCR.

I am sure we would also be fascinated.

ranger

[lancs]

You won gold at BIRC, pulling sub-6:30 for 2K as a lightweight.

But can you row?

No.

Next question..

[Nosmo]

Nicely done. I confess I was stumped. I didn't think of a simple RC circuit as the crucial step. A friend of mine in electrical engineering had a sticker on his door with the large omega (symbol for Ohms) and caption on the sticker said: It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Byron

I've never seen the phrase with omega, but I've often seen: "2.998 x10^8 m/s--its not just a good idea its the law". It became popular after the ad campaign when Carter reduced the national speed limit: "55 mph , its not just a good idea its the law".

There is something intuitively very satisfying about capacitance being a distance and conductivity being a velocity. But if you apply the same methods to Current, Voltage and Charge, you find that they are the square root of an energy times velocity, the square root of energy over distance and the square root of energy times distance. The math obviously works but it is hard to wrap ones mind around what it means.

( So what is your car's mileage in inverse square Farads? )


(Don't drink and Derive)