The Two Types of Training

[ThatMoos3Guy]

Ranger,

I have never sculled with Buzz, however I have been coached by him for sweep rowing. He's one of the best coaches I've had and if you have any opportunity to work with him I highly suggest you take it. Plus, the Connecticut River is by far one of the best places to row on.

The Chieftan itself is not a great place to stay, but the service is good and the rates are cheap. The biggest advantage is that you're literally a couple of minutes from a dock. If you're set on camping though, there's plenty of places around to do that.

[ranger]

Ranger,

I have never sculled with Buzz, however I have been coached by him for sweep rowing. He's one of the best coaches I've had and if you have any opportunity to work with him I highly suggest you take it. Plus, the Connecticut River is by far one of the best places to row on.

The Chieftan itself is not a great place to stay, but the service is good and the rates are cheap. The biggest advantage is that you're literally a couple of minutes from a dock. If you're set on camping though, there's plenty of places around to do that.

Thanks for the info. Yes, I looked on maps a while back and found quite a few parks along the Connecticut.

Yes, I'll certainly try to take advantage of anything that I can learn from Mike and Buzz. As I have said many times, I am still a novice OTW. I am still just learning to row.

ranger

[ranger]

So, what you row for 2K I will row for 60min.

ranger

You haven't rowed 60 minutes without stopping to rest in over 8 years. What makes you think you can erg at that pace when your last 2k effort at a SLOWER pace resulted in a DNF?

More of the same, all talk and no action.

Gene

All talk and no action?

You mean lots of training and no racing?

Yep, so far.

_Very_ successful, impressive training, though.

No reason to look at training exclusively from a spectator's point of view, as though it is just a performance, or nothing.

The trick that has gotten me to this more successful distance rowing has been lowering the drag and moving to a 3-to-1 ratio.

I rowed my 2Ks this winter at max drag in a 2-to-1 ratio but a fairly low rate, 30 spm, etc.

I also did the 2Ks without proper preparation--AT, TR, and AN work.

I was just doing some distance rowing at the time, and not the best sort, as it turns out.

As I sugggested in an earlier post, things are sorting themselves out now.

It is clear now that I can also use a short, quick drive, heels set, at a lower drag, in a 2-to-1 ratio at 40 spm and a 1-to-1 ratio at 60 spm.

I think that this is where I am headed in my TR and AN rowing.

On the other hand, the 3-to-1 ratio I am doing now is going to be _very_ useful for AT rowing (e.g., 4 x 2K, 5K, andd 6K), which is really just an extension of top-end UT1 rowing.

The combination of high rate and high efficiency in the 3-to-1 ratio gets my HR up to my anaerobic threshold so that I am in a position to push it into AT.

That's what I have been looking for.

A heavy stroke at high drag doesn't put you in this position.

Efficiency drops; pace drops; heart rate drops; etc.

You end up nowhere, just trudging along, trudging along.

This is the (good!) point that John has been making, albeit with other baggage dragged along that i don't agree with.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Again I ask. What makes you think you're actually achieving a 1:3 drive-recovery rato on an erg r30?

[BrianStaff]

Honestly, Mike, I think your response is: "Why would I want to waste my time doing that?"

And that isn't socializing at all.

It's just snobbery.

As I have discovered (to my surprise), the rowing community is full of snobs like you.

Ah the essence of socializing ~ calling a potential guest a "snob"

Is this your way of "sneaking out the back door" - I don't see you ever spending more than 7:11 in the company of anybody on this forum.

[ranger]

Again I ask. What makes you think you're actually achieving a 1:3 drive-recovery rato on an erg r30?

Just the rhythm of the stroke.

You can count it out.

Drive-two-three-four-Drive-two-three-four-Drive-two-three-four, etc.

I'll post a video and you can tell me if I am right.

ranger

[ranger]

It becomes 2-to-1 at 40 spm.

Drive-two-three-Drive-two-three-Drive-two-three, etc.

ranger

[ranger]

At high rates, it looks like this:

http://www.quistmedia.dk/roklub/crash-b08/08022602.html



What is Stephansen's ratio at 44 spm after he gets into this row, e.g., after a couple of minutes?

Just under 2-to-1?

ranger

[ranger]

I don't see you ever spending more than 7:11 in the company of anybody on this forum.

Been there, done that, 24/7, multiple times.

Which shows that your "seeing' is blind.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich:

Do you remember posting this screen shot?

=>

the script says "cureton146r20". Sort of at odds with the pace I figured out for the 28:31 showing....
What was it meant to show other than that you are able to row 6513 meters at 2:11 pace (avg) ?

I just happened to stumble on it: It somehow showed up on my screen while I was getting ready to brag like a snob.

Cheers!

[mikvan52]

Again I ask. What makes you think you're actually achieving a 1:3 drive-recovery rato on an erg r30?

Just the rhythm of the stroke.

You can count it out.

Drive-two-three-four-Drive-two-three-four-Drive-two-three-four, etc.

I'll post a video and you can tell me if I am right.

ranger

Nav':

I found this one: a youtube of our hero doing.... (?) let's count out the ratio



I count:
Drive-two-Drive-two
at 36 spm
Naturally he can triple the recovery time if he drops the pace to a 30!
Wasn't his stroke already "fixed" when he shot this one?

[NavigationHazard]

At high rates, it looks like this:

http://www.quistmedia.dk/roklub/crash-b08/08022602.html



What is Stephansen's ratio at 44 spm after he gets into this row, e.g., after a couple of minutes?

Just under 2-to-1?

ranger

Basically 1:1 at 40 spm, not 44. Within the limits of analysis at 30 fps, I make this particular stroke 1:1.05, actually, at 40 spm.



Catch, or at least the start of hands coming up at the catch.



End of drive, or at least the end of hands moving back.



End of recovery/ next catch, or at least the start of hands coming up again.

Ratio here is 22 frames:23 frames, or 1:1.04. At 30 fps, the 45 frames imply a rating of 40.0.

The actual drive:recovery ratio will depend on how you define "drive." Handle movement backwards does not immediately supply power to the erg -- even with a quick engagement it takes up to a couple hundredths of a second or so for the ratchet to engage and start accelerating the flywheel. Similarly, once the ratchet disengages at the finish you can move the hands around and/or continue to lay back without doing anything to the flywheel. If you define "drive" as "portion of the stroke during which power is supplied to the flywheel" then Stephensen's ratio is probably more like 1:1.1 or 1:1.15.

I feel compelled to add that his drive is somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.7-0.72 seconds in duration, NOT the 0.5 you seem to think he's doing.

[whp4]

You have to remember that in rangerrhythm, the beats go by at different speeds!

Think of it as

Drive - twothreefour

Drive takes the same amount of time as twothreefour, so it's easy to see how you are getting confused and thinking that it is just drive-two, drive-two

It's too bad ranger is too cheap to even pay Henry a token $100 out of the $1000 he owes, or he could be getting real numbers from ErgMonitor.

[ranger]

Basically 1:1 at 40 spm

Yea, I think you are right.

I just put up the video as a parallel for a laugh.

Actually, when push comes to shove, in a 2K, I will probably use a longer drive than I am using now, too, .7 seconds rather than .5.

Like Stephansen, I will roll up on my toes at the catch, which gives you both more length and drive time.

When you do this, it takes quite a bit of time to roll back down to your heels, given the quickness of a powerful drive.

With the distance stroke I am using now, I _don't_ roll up onto my toes.

I keep my heels firmly planted and therefore can transfer the time I would take rolling to heels to the recovery.

The catch is then sharper and shorter, by quite a bit.

I also acclerate the handle _very_ quickly into and out of the finish.

This shortens the drive even further (while naturally raising the rate).

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Translation: "You're nowhere close to 1:3 at 30 spm."