6:28 2K

[hjs]

Nonsens, hartrate has nothing to do with rate, you can reach high hartrates on low spm if you push hard enough.

I am talking about Mike and me and the same stroking power, 11.7 SPI.

Given this stroking power and the same %HRR, what he does at 20 spm, I do at 27 spm.

Sure, this is exactly the kind of effort that it is best to expend from day to day, ideally for an hour or two.

But there is no reason now for me to do it at 20 spm.

I can do it at 27 spm, perhaps even 29 spm.

ranger

The last few years have shown that you and mike are close on the 2k, although mike is much more consistant, no 7.30 from him
he rates lower the you, so his SPI is higher then yours

Maybe you will row this weekend and get a result, if so you can compare your 2k to the one mike did last weekend.

[ranger]

Nonsens, hartrate has nothing to do with rate, you can reach high hartrates on low spm if you push hard enough.

I am talking about Mike and me and the same stroking power, 11.7 SPI.

Given this stroking power and the same %HRR, what he does at 20 spm, I do at 27 spm.

Sure, this is exactly the kind of effort that it is best to expend from day to day, ideally for an hour or two.

But there is no reason now for me to do it at 20 spm.

I can do it at 27 spm, perhaps even 29 spm.

ranger

The last few years have shown that you and mike are close on the 2k, although mike is much more consistant, no 7.30 from him
he rates lower the you, so his SPI is higher then yours

Maybe you will row this weekend and get a result, if so you can compare your 2k to the one mike did last weekend.

The comparisons should be made at the end of the season.

What did Mike pull for 2K?

What did I pull?

Last year, without even preparing for it, I pulled 6:41; Mike pulled 6:50.

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | 2009 Season

You are number 1 of 95

1 Rich Cureton 58 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.0 RACE
2 Rocketroy Brook 57 GBR 6:43.8 RACE
3 John Busk 55 Slangerup GBR 6:47.5 RACE
4 Mike Van Beuren 56 Annapolis MD USA 6:50.0 RACE
5 Brian Leonard Phipps 59 Rongotea Manawatu NZL 6:56.9 RACE
5 Rolf Meek 58 Oslo NOR 6:56.9 IND
7 Tor Arne Simonsen 58 NOR 6:57.3 RACE
8 Thomas Knight 56 newcastle on tyne GBR 7:04.5 RACE
9 Chris Betenson 55 IRL 7:04.8 RACE
10 Daniel DEVEZ 55 FRA 7:05.1 RACE

It will be interesting to see how this turns out this season.

I think I will be a dozen seconds faster in Chicago at the end of February than I will be in Indianapolis this weekend.

I don't think that Mike will improve at all.

He is sharpened up to the gills.

6:47 is just about it.

I am just beginning to sharpen.

I have not developed my distance rowing fully, either.

Normally, I get about a dozen seconds over 2K from each.

Last year, I just did foundational training at low rates, pulling hard.

This year, I am doing no foundational training, just distance rowing and sharpening.

This year, my weight is the best it has ever been.

I won't have any problem making weight at all the race venues, including Indianapolis this weekend.

And my weight will get better and better at each successive race: Cincinnati, Boston, Chicago.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

(snip)
If we pull the same wattage, the effort you expend at 20 spm, I expend at 27 spm.

(snip)

ranger

Complete nonsense. Watts on the monitor is a derived unit of power (output). It is NOT a measure of rower input.

Try to row for 10k at 1:40 pace and 27 spm (12.7 spi).
Now try to row 10k at the same 1:40 pace and 20 spm (17.5 spi).

You won't be able to do either, of course. But it ought to be obvious that the latter will require vastly more rower effort than the former.

[mikvan52]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out this season.

I think I will be a dozen seconds faster in Chicago at the end of February than I will be in Indianapolis this weekend.

I don't think that Mike will improve at all.

He is sharpened up to the gills.

6:47 is just about it.

I am just beginning to sharpen.

This is great! It's that time of year again... Mostly posturing/ little substance. IOW: Trash Talking...

Hey, Rich (posture, posture)!

Don't "think", just do

As for your statement: " I am just beginning to sharpen.": That too bad... you've started too late again to peak for the World Champiohships.
But... to share a little secret... I don't believe you... You have been sharpening... You're just hiding that fact..

"You... You ... You're Good!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtbASCE7ZY

[ranger]

(snip)
If we pull the same wattage, the effort you expend at 20 spm, I expend at 27 spm.

(snip)

ranger

Complete nonsense. Watts on the monitor is a derived unit of power (output). It is NOT a measure of rower input.

Try to row for 10k at 1:40 pace and 27 spm (12.7 spi).
Now try to row 10k at the same 1:40 pace and 20 spm (17.5 spi).

You won't be able to do either, of course. But it ought to be obvious that the latter will require vastly more rower effort than the former.

%HRR is a measure of rower input.

By "wattage," I was referring to stroking power/SPI.

At the same SPI and %HRR, what Mike is pulling at 20 spm, I am pulling at 27 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

just do

Who omits the doing?

I train several hours a day.

I will race this weekend, and if I can, every weekend after that until the end of February (Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Boston, (perhaps something here, too), and Chicago.

ranger

[ranger]

I am just beginning to sharpen.": That too bad... you've started too late again to peak for the World Championships.

I am not training for any particular race.

I am just following the flow of my training.

Last year, I didn't sharpen at all.

I didn't even do distance rowing.

Peak?

I pulled 6:41, but hardly at a "peak."

I was just doing low rate, foundational training.

This year, I have been doing distance rowing for about six months.

And I will be sharpening now for five weeks.

Both should have a significant effect on my 2K time, maximally, about a dozen seconds each.

I no longer need to do low rate, foundational training ("learn to row").

I now row well.

ranger

[Nosmo]

Mike VB is 8% body fat.
You are bigger than I am, Mike, both taller and heavier (at the same % body fat, that is, in non-fat body mass).

You do not know what his body fat is. You don't even know your own, you have admitted as much several pages back.

%HRR is a measure of rower input.

well actually it is a measure of heart rate.

By "wattage," I was referring to stroking power/SPI.

Which is a measure of energy not power. Sloppy language is fun. Just redefine things as you please, or change the meaning after the fact.

At the same SPI and %HRR, what Mike is pulling at 20 spm, I am pulling at 27 spm.

The difference is he is doing it for much longer.

The thing is Ranger, you are not MVBs main competition. You are just his main competition for something that is a side show for him. This is his off season.
You should take a few hints from Bob Spenger. He not only broke the world record by almost 40 seconds, everyone here likes and respects him.

[johnlvs2run]

Post a video cleaning 100 kgs. off your heels at 36 repetitions a minute for eight minutes.

That would be interesting to see.

ranger

Those would be tough to do.
I did 70 deadlifts in 3 minutes which was tough enough, depending on the weight.
That might have been a really good exercise as I was rowing well at the time.
They got me breathing quite well, which is not usually the case lifting weights.

[mikvan52]

Hold it right here.
Did you use a rusty abacus to figure out your ciphers, Rich?

%HRR is a measure of rower input.

Really!

You'd better try some more useless explaining because that simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

By "wattage," I was referring to stroking power/SPI.

Within what you said originally, this is also false.

At the same SPI and %HRR, what Mike is pulling at 20 spm, I am pulling at 27 spm.

The hole you're digging for yourself is getting huge, Rich. Give it up.

Most specifically:

Say my HR is at 80% HRR and I'm rating 20 spm @ a pace of 1:54.

As I showed in:

Execution:
15:00 - 3902 meters - 1:55.3 - 20 spm - 129 bpm
15:00 - 3940 meters - 1:54.2 - 21 spm - 139 bpm
15:00 - 3938 meters - 1:54.2 - 20 spm - 143 bpm

Say you are at 80% HRR too but are rating 27 spm and have the same spi as me.... What's your pace?

Solution:
1st figure my spi: It's 11.81 (236.24 watts)
Now figure your pace:
11.81 = x # of watts/ 27spm
Solving for watts: 27 x 11.81 = 318.87 watts (the watts you'd have to row to get 11.81 at a 27!

Now: What pace is 318.87 watts? Eureka 1:43/500m

For you to maintain this is to be A LIAR Rich, You cannot do the workout in question. I bet you 1 million dollars!
3x 15'/3'r at 80% HRR and average 1:43.15?
By your own admission you do a 6:41 2k as a recent best and I do a 6:47...... Do you see the problem...???? No????

Ok?
What percentage is 6:41/ 6:47? (your 2k vs mine)
Got it? It's 401 sec/ 407 or 98%

Now look at 1:43/1:54.... (our alleged relative paces for 3 x15')
(103/114)=90%

So you claim that while I'm only 2% slower than you at 2k, OTOH I'm 8% slower at a much longer distance.

Rich: I'm #1 at 5k on up to an hour. It doesn't make sense.

It's up to you to either explain the percentage discrepancy or actually do the 3x15' workout including all HR data + pacing + stroke rates.

You really are too much.
Stick to poetry.

What would I do?... Slow down in my 3 x15 at 80% and 20 spm just to make you look better.... u be on smack?
I would have to erg holding my breath periodically... or my HR would not be high enough.

[leadville]

Today, January 25, 2010 - Ranger says:

"I am just beginning to sharpen.

I have not developed my distance rowing fully, either."

Hey, Ranger, this is a direct contradiction of your earlier statement that you began 'sharpening' (whatever the hell that is) over three weeks ago.

From January 2, 2010

"Over the next two months I will sharpen."

Now, 23 days after you claimed you started 'sharpening' you now claim you're just beginning to 'sharpen'.

So which is it? Did you start three plus weeks ago or are you just now beginning?

It's bad enough you claim, despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary, to know how much MVB trains, what his max HR is, how many golds the Dane won, how to measure human power output, how to lose weight, how to train (no low rate rowing???!!!), how HR is critical to performance capability (despite Fritz Hagerman's dismissal of this as nonsense); but this - this is proof you don't even pay attention to what you yourself write!

Ranger, no wonder you're so confused. You spend too much time publicly preening and nowhere near enough time actually thinking. Always remember, ranger, engage brain before opening mouth.

Good luck with that.

[ranger]

I'm #1 at 5k on up to an hour

Hmm.

Yes.

Let's see how that goes over the next year or so.

ranger

[ranger]

my spi: It's 11.81

Yes, this is exactly my SPI for all purposes now--distance rowing, sharpening, and racing.

Delighted with that.

Wonderfully big stroke now, long and powerful, relaxed, well-timed, and sequenced.

I no longer do low rate rowing ("learn to row").

No need.

I now row well.

If you can do 11.8 SPI at normal rates for 20K, or even 2K, Mike, you would be _very_ fast.

But your history is that you pull 9.5 SPI for both.

In 2006, I pulled 12 SPI for 2K @ 31 spm.

Try that.

This is what I will do at Indianapolis, if things go well.

This time, as a lightweight.

If you pull 11.8 SPI for sharpening, then it should be a cinch for you to do 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) at 1:34.

That's only 36 spm, not a high rate at all for a lightweight doing 500s.

ranger

[snowleopard]

In 2006, I pulled 12 SPI for 2K @ 31 spm.

As a **HWT**

That is to say you did not have the same non-fat bodymass %age as Mike. Geddit

[ranger]

engage brain before opening mouth

Unfortunately, that doesn't help what comes out of my mouth.



This is not at all unusual.

We are all pretty nutty, no?

Hail, Zatopek!

He was the nuttiest of them all.

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=5518

ranger