Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[JohnAd]

Rohan, sorry for the confusion, my memory has clearly been addled by too much lactic. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity on the reason. That category is perhaps the hardest to offer any advice on. My log card has its share of 5x500m and 6x500 where I just couldn't face 8 as well as plenty of aborted 30' rows. For me these are mostly when I've been fooling myself about what pace I'm targeting and setting off at the pace I want to be at rather than the pace I'm at.

[jackarabit]

Dropping like flies? Who has most weeks complete, most complete w/out vac breaks or illness? Do long breaks refresh? Does the mind tire before the body? Does anyone sense that the mental component (enthusiasm, kickass cando) struggles and fades with the awful realization that the upward curve of progress is flattening? Should one consciously increment or check improvement to "fit" the training window pre-comp such that one expects to PB at comp? Or should comp effort be replication of the sure thing, old slouch hat, well within oneself effort? Hope everyone attempts to make their spreadsht as complete as possible. Might be some answers there after the dust settles.

[JohnAd]

PP 5.2.1 Pyramid
Previous 1:43.5 (1k @ 1:44.4)
Target 1:43.0 (1k < 1:44.0)
250 01:43.6 r30
500 01:43.5 r30
750 01:43.5 r30
1000 01:43.9 r31
750 01:43.2 r31
500 01:42.3 r32
250 01:36.0 r40
Avg 1:43.0 r32
MHR 167

It's been 6 weeks since I last did this and so was hard to judge the pacing, on the 1k in the middle I went out too fast too early and was nearly dead with 300m to go so did some short strokes for 100m but coasted in a bit as I though the I was coasting into a 1:43 average not a 1:44 average. the last 250m was a bit of a blast, the first time I've tried really sprinting on these, I struggled to hold the pace and was fading towards the end but it really is a different thing doing the sprints at that kind of rate.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Powerful stuff there John - great session!

8k SS today - 2:09.9 (53% of 2k Watts) - average HR of 150 so well in UT2 - though did spend a decent chunk of time just over the Ut1 border.

[jackarabit]

@ John A.: the 40 rate sprint "rocks."

Like Goldilocks among the bears,
Dare to sit in all the chairs!

[mdpfirrman]

Dropping like flies? Who has most weeks complete, most complete w/out vac breaks or illness? Do long breaks refresh? Does the mind tire before the body? Does anyone sense that the mental component (enthusiasm, kickass cando) struggles and fades with the awful realization that the upward curve of progress is flattening? Should one consciously increment or check improvement to "fit" the training window pre-comp such that one expects to PB at comp? Or should comp effort be replication of the sure thing, old slouch hat, well within oneself effort? Hope everyone attempts to make their spreadsht as complete as possible. Might be some answers there after the dust settles.

Would love to have my spreadsheet more complete Jack! For a dead fly, I managed to rake a lot of dang leaves on Sunday! Feeling better but the flu is in my chest still and I'm still resting up. If I go back to working out later this week, it will be weights first before cardio feeling like this. I still feel like garbage but I do have my energy levels back up more. Hoping I'm on the tail end of this thing and can get back in to the mix soon. Enjoying watching everyone's progress though.

[jackarabit]

Mike, I washed out and haven't been sick (except for a strong aversion to doing further intervals). I think it will turn around for you and you'll bounce back. I don't see much significance to the number of cycles completed except to suggest that one too few may be less harmful than one too many.

[mdpfirrman]

Mike, I washed out and haven't been sick (except for a strong aversion to doing further intervals). I think it will turn around for you and you'll bounce back. I don't see much significance to the number of cycles completed except to suggest that one too few may be less harmful than one too many.

I've mentioned this before but I feel like the PP (and speed work in general) is more or less like weight lifting. I'm not huge into weight lifting but I've been around enough guys that take it a lot more serious than I do (including my son). Being a regular "gym rat" too for the five or so years since I've lost 60 lbs and kept it off, I've learned one major thing about weight lifting. It's cumulative effects and consistency above all else that give results. The guys who lift the most are always there working on it, don't take major time off, and hit plateaus regularly. The difference between someone that lifts major weight and someone who doesn't is usually consistency, that's it (barring injuries).

I think the PP is the same. I'm not a great example right now but someone's speed, if not trained regularly, will drop. With the PP, you'll plateau too for different reasons - illnesses being fended off, just peaking and not improving drastically, overtraining, etc. I just think that those that get REALLY fast are A) strong B ) have fantastic cardio bases and C) are consistent about pushing limits - either in harder slower rows (with power in each stroke) or by doing a nice amount of speed work (in some form or another). I do think that the most important aspect is overall fitness / cardio coupled with strength / technique. I think of the three factors I named, speed can be trained the quickest. I do think it helps to train fast twitch muscle fibers regularly though if someone is doing 100% long, hard rows (Wolverine type stuff).

I mistakenly thought (last year) that I could keep improving doing the HIIT type work that PP consists of. It only got me so far. The rest of the year really got me faster (all the meters). I reached my personal "peak" probably after three or so rounds of PP (I did one before this thread). Once you reach that peak, it's hard to progress further unless you keep working the cardio part. I think that's why your speed improved so much this past year - all the hard SS work you did as well.

After this year's racing season, I will continue with an abbreviated PP type week - 3 longer rows (SS) and 3 hard sessions. I'll just make the interval reps less and the speed greater than the PP recommends (3 X 1000 or 2 X 2000 for instance / 6 X 500) with longer SS W/Us and C/Ds to add meters in the bank. I think that worked well for me this year.

I would hope Jack you'd try a TT 2K this year. I really thought you were prepared to go sub 8 for sure!

John A - Killing it John!

[JohnAd]

Jack, seems a bit early to call this thread, I think there's a bit of life in it yet and the dust won't properly settle for a while, the BPPers are only half way through after all. Agree with Mike that it would be good to see you try a 2k before the PP sharpness blunts too much.

I agree that some of the question do need answers though, it does seem a bit odd that quite so many of the group are getting ill and that this happened last year as well. Cold/flu season is one explanation and maybe we aren't as conscious of how many people feel below par when we're not following their every row but it does seem a very high toll given that exercise is supposed to make us healthier.

[G-dub]

SD - testing the rib. worked OK. on to tomorrow. Also did a moderate to hard 30' run this morning

[lindsayh]

Jack, seems a bit early to call this thread, I think there's a bit of life in it yet and the dust won't properly settle for a while, the BPPers are only half way through after all. Agree with Mike that it would be good to see you try a 2k before the PP sharpness blunts too much.
I agree that some of the question do need answers though, it does seem a bit odd that quite so many of the group are getting ill and that this happened last year as well. Cold/flu season is one explanation and maybe we aren't as conscious of how many people feel below par when we're not following their every row but it does seem a very high toll given that exercise is supposed to make us healthier.

2 things - I agree that Jack should find an opportunity to have a red hot go a the 2km.
2nd thing -> I have watched with interest over some years now the "illness thing" that seems to interrupt the training of quite a few here and elsewhere and IMO it is definitely real. Its seems to happen every year and my observation/suspicion is that it is more likely seasonal than directly related to the PP. It is not a phenomenon that we see here so much in the Southern Hemisphere which may reflect our milder winters (FWIW I haven't ever been sick enough not to erg in a decade). Over the years both in the Forum here and more particularly in the (ex) UK site reports of flu type disease and illness setbacks were pretty much standard. I suspect it is not PP related but perhaps is linked to training? Many OTW people train harder on the erg in winter, many here I suspect are fathers of younger kids? It also seems to me that "maintaining the rage" with the PP is hard and maybe limited for most to 3-5 cycles depending on discipline/focus/available time/life. There is a PhD out there for someone in this!!

[mudgeg]

Jack, I agree with John. Bit early to pull down the shutters on this thread, especially when most of the BPP are only mostly a bit more than half way. Touch wood, I haven't been sick and I have done all five sessions on the BPP every week for twelve weeks and each one to the limit of my ability. My body isn't giving out but my head could easily and the mental side is the biggest challenge with a training plan like this for us amateur erg jockeys.

The really tough fight is dragging yourself to the gym in the dark and cold, the lack of sunlight, the shear length of the plan, the inevitable plateaus, the weeks of seeing no apparent improvement. One of the UK Olympic rowers said the really hard thing was getting up at 5:30 on a winter morning to train on the Thames. But what kept you going was that if you didn't do it the Aussies probably were and if you missed a sesssion and they didn't that could make the difference in the final between Gold and Silver and what Englishman ever wants to come second to the Australians.

This thread is a microcosm of that. When I did my first 5k of the plan, twelve weeks ago, it was faster than I had done that distance all year but I only achieved it because other beginners had posted such great times and I was absolutely determined not to be left behind. What I am trying to say here is although the BPP is an excellent tool it's only half of it. The other half has been the enthusiasm and support of the thread and the ability to compare and 'compete' against other members. The BPP members here have been my virtual Aussies.

[G-dub]

If my experience with misinterpreting Jack tells me anything, he is saying to NOT stop and to dig in and keep going all the way through to the races. I personally think this notion of "plateau" is a little tricky to apply here with us weekend warriors. All of us continue to make gains when we let our minds lets us. Yes, some have been sick, some needed a mental break, some had life interruptions etc, but all of us made progress when we were stuck into it and all of us continue to make progress even now. Let's keep going!

And no one person pulls the plug on the thread. It ends when everyone is through.

[jackarabit]

I don't bother to argue when folks put words in my mouth but I'll make an exception. Obviously the BPP guys should finish their 24 wk sched. Obviously P007 (5k) shouid go 12 weeks. If I said otherwise, I can't find it.

Lindsay gave my musings a fair hearing; his conclusions are a good counterpoint. I''m not worried about your aches, pains or rugrat/co-worker seasonal contagions. May be that these layoffs offer a fresh start (dead easy microcycle). Mike suggested as much.

I read in this thread that one practitioner of Pete Plan "improved for 5 out of 6 months." 20 weeks of improvement may well be possible; the alternative IP 2k can be followed for 26 weeks. After all, Pete assures us that we'll always be faster than the previous day or week or cycle (until we're not). By all means train up to your comp date. Next time you do this plan, back date your plan start from the comp based on your observed rate and period of improvement. This time around I believe a complete training spreadsht may indicate the degree of consonance between training peak and TT result for each rower. I doubt that this so fine a point as to be lost on most of us. If it is, so be it. . I'm not putting words in Mike's mouth when I reiterate his observation that speed "trains the quickest."

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Folks I hope I wasn't responsible for what appears to have been a misinterpretation of Jack's post.

I meant to start my post on Sunday 'we're dropping like flies' - purely in reference to Glenn's ribs on top of Mike's cold/flu, Piers saying he was off colour and Tim's knee issue. For some reason I actually wrote 'we're falling flies'.

Jack hope I'm not putting words in your mouth now but I thought all you did was correct my phraseology and point out as lots of folks, (you, Greg, Henry, and others) have said, that after a few cycles it becomes more of a challenge to maintain strict adherence to the PP, let alone maintain the rate of initial progress. I definitely didn't interpret your post as suggesting the thread should end.