Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[G-dub]

Anyway, any thoughts?

I'd always interpreted the Pete plan as trying to solve the problem, "what the best training plan if you can only row 45-50mins a day and don't like low rate work?" rather than what's the best training plan to do if you can spend as much time on the erg as you like. I don't think 45mins is really enough for true SS/UT2 work to do anything and so I've always read Pete's steady distance work as more UT1 but defintely lower PE than the hard days.

Yes! That point gets lost a bit - It had a time constraint that influenced it. It also was developed before polarized training was more generally written and talked about. The challenge with UT1 is that it starts to smoosh lots of work more toward the center (UT1/AT/TR). Don't worry folks, I'm not attempting a coop. Just bantering about.

[gregsmith01748]

I find the SS days to be tricky from the standpoint of how to approach them mentally and physically while on the PP. When I was not doing as much volume of the more intense work, I would look forward to the SS rows and want to make progress on "aerobic speed". I also looked forward to a long row or two on the weekend as a way to know that I was pushing adaptations from a distance standpoint. But now on the PP, it seems that these rows are relegated to flushing toxins and recovery, with aerobic conditioning a little pushed to the side (its actually one of the flaws of the plan to me. I think 3 days of intensity is too much and should really be two days of intensity and one long row depending on where you are in the year, but alas). It becomes too easy to let the fatigue from the intense sessions to almost negatively impact the quality of the SS days, which is sort of reverse to what we usually say, which is don't let the SS days negatively impact the intense days. Anyway, any thoughts? Should we really be thinking in terms of making sure both SS and Intense days have quality, while also keeping them as polarized? Greg, where are you???!!!

I've been lurking!

When I was doing the Pete Plan, I came to a similar conclusion that you did. I decided that the best idea was to extend the SS rows in time and strictly limit the intensity. My logic was this. The main point point of endurance rows is to train the ability to metabolize fat. Essentially trying to increase the power you can put out without building up your lactate level. A rowing coach over on the Rowing Illustrated boards has posted some very compelling data about the correlation between the maximum wattage that you can sustain in these endurance sessions without significant lactate buildup and 2K performance. He even did longitudinal studies of the same athletes over time to show that the change in endurance power correlated with the change in 2K performance. Anyway, I digress.

The key factor for endurance training is the amount of time you spend in that endurance zone. So, I decided that pushing the 8K up to 15K or 20K and keeping my heart rate in the aerobic zone (UT2/UT1) was the best way to use these steady state sessions. At these intensities, the recovery time is short and you are pretty fresh for the intense sessions. When I analyzed my training data, I found something surprising. I was dooing 3 PP core sessions a week and 3 " long 'n easy" rows. If I included my warmup and cooldown data, I found that my HR was above the TR threshold (>163bpm) about 25% of the total training time, and below the top of the UT1 zone (<157) about 75% of the time. Also, I was spending very little time in between those two. So it seemed like I my training was very well polarized, but potentially a bit heavy on the high intensity. A plan that had 2 intense sessions a week would probably fix that, but it wouldn't be the Pete Plan.

The conclusion that I came to is that the Pete Plan is a good plan for about a 3 month period of time (maybe 3 or 4 cycles), beyond that, I got stale and frustrated.

On other side note, I saw the discussion about 3 week versus 4 week cycles. When we did the plan a while ago, I was one of the folks that suggested a 4th week in the cycle. I suggested it for a a number of reasons.
1. Most of the folks doing the plan at that time were also doing various challenges, like the CTC. Having a window to do them without disrupting the group seemed like a good idea.
2. When i read about some of the workouts that people did, I often wanted to give them a try, but again, I didn't want to disrupt the group.
3. We wanted to give people a window to do ranking distances
4. I get bored doing the same thing all the time

So, in the fourth week, I kept to the idea of a short interval day, a long interval day and a hard distance day, and I would fit the CTC or other workout into the bin that it fit best. I agree it is not pure PP, but I wanted to share the logic.

[G-dub]

As always, your logic is appreciated. I tend to support the 4th week from a mental health standpoint. A bouy to swim to where I can do whatever I want! But I struggle with confinement! We did notice last fall that the group got a bit fractured during the 4th week but that might have had more to do with trying the plan twice within a short period.

[jackarabit]

Wk 1: SS #3
10k
Pace target: Why bother, ain't gonna happen.
df115
cold start; 2K CD


Yes, I'm just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood.


Felt good at 4k, solid at 7, couldn't resist.
OK, I was watching watts; mea culpa!
PB by 31.6".
Stinkin up the place. The car air freshener is mine, mine, MINE! !

20160825__10k splits.JPG (21.78 KiB) Viewed 5226 times

20160825__10k SB.JPG (28.41 KiB) Viewed 5226 times

Rowchart attachment below.

[G-dub]

You might as well accidentally PB all of the distances at this point Jack. You should change your name to Gammo2!

[jackarabit]

10K rowchart from Jack S[illy] S[tate] #3.

[mdpfirrman]

@ Jack - You are cracking me up! Very nice work! Smashin' it.

@ John - I do lifting on my 5K timed day (today) and on my short interval day. I used to try to do it on my long interval day and failed miserably. I do have an hour or two rest between lifting / rowing on my short interval day. I try to lift (didn't get it done this week at night on my intermediate day) at night. Today is probably my toughest day. I do a W/U (1000m), a short but very intense lifting session (I try to keep my workouts to lunch hour though I'm self employed), and then the 5K timed / C/D of 1000m.

Today forgot to take a picture but it was around a 19:45 or so (nothing fantastic but I was pushing it). Way off last week (by 10 seconds) but anything under 20 for me immediately after lifting is decent. I still have a 19:20 in the back of my head after this week's intervals. One of these weeks I'm going to have to forgo the lifting and go for it.

@ Greg - Always make a lot of sense. Listening to you and Chris is the reason I didn't do the PP all year. I modified it, though, to fit more of a base building type of phase with less (but more intense) intervals along with longer warmups and cool downs to make it more polarized. This is pretty much how I spent my off season (but only expect so much results as I as limited to only having time to do around 50K meters a week - an improvement from last year but I'm only going to get so much results with those meters).

Strong rows Dean / Glenn / Rohan and John!

[jackarabit]

Glenn, there's something deep inside, that guarantees I'll be fried!
Good odds changing name to Eurasmus B. Draggin first of next week.

[G-dub]

Get it while you got it I suppose. There is part of it which is breaking down the mental barriers. "Tear Down Those Walls".

[jackarabit]

JohnAd writes:

. . . rowed strapless which seemed to help control the pace, I did have to rely on my heels being in the heel bit rather too often though, will take me a while to get the hang of strapless clearly.

Try having the thought that you are commanding the soles of your feet to stay in contact with the foot stretcher. I feel a sort of rigidity or isostatic tension in my ankles when I think this thought. Works for me when I start hanging the heel cups in the air. I know it's actually a matter of pulling the chest to the handle or maybe chest and handle agreeing to "meet in the middle," but proprioceptive visualization of the feet maintaining contact makes them maintain contact. If you think about "hanging" your shoe heels on the cups, you'll continue to do exactly that. So get the "stick" of strapless rather than the "hang."

[JohnAd]

Thanks Jack I'll try that next time, I think I get what you mean. Great job on the SS to PB transformation, not quite the pure plan but why not if you can.

[mdpfirrman]

JohnAd writes:

. . . rowed strapless which seemed to help control the pace, I did have to rely on my heels being in the heel bit rather too often though, will take me a while to get the hang of strapless clearly.

Try having the thought that you are commanding the soles of your feet to stay in contact with the foot stretcher. I feel a sort of rigidity or isostatic tension in my ankles when I think this thought. Works for me when I start hanging the heel cups in the air. I know it's actually a matter of pulling the chest to the handle or maybe chest and handle agreeing to "meet in the middle," but proprioceptive visualization of the feet maintaining contact makes them maintain contact. If you think about "hanging" your shoe heels on the cups, you'll continue to do exactly that. So get the "stick" of strapless rather than the "hang."

I had a really, really hard time going strapless at first. Ironically, you intuitively want to go easy with your legs and then pull back hard, which will make you fly right off the thing. My feet used to come up until I realized I was just going too far back in my finish and stopping at the top of my finish and pausing. Rowing strapless made me time my drive with my legs and arms to be more efficient and forced me to get my hands back faster - all good things. Now I row strapless every long row (but not timed rows) and I feel comfortable doing it. My feet stay put too now. My form has gotten MUCH better as a result.

[jackarabit]

Thanks for the tickles, cuddles, semi-nudges, guys. I expect the endorphin surfing has run its course. Now that I possess the coveted car air freshener, the manacles and straitjacket won't be necessary.

?

[JohnAd]

Mike, yes the slow hands thing sounds familiar and I'm sure I'm not yet linking all the stroke elements smoothly or efficiently, I'll keep at it on the SS as it gives me something else to do on rows I might otherwise get bored of quite quickly.

[Joe L]

So...I'd like to consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, but I'm not sure why I haven't incorporated any hard distance work into my training. As I've mentioned, I have trouble holding higher spm. I started rowing again in January 2016, but I don't think that I've done more than a 3K piece at more than 18 spm in over eight years. It would sure make some sense to start working on that. It might also make sense to set reasonable targets to start off. 0 for 2!

@Jack - hand over that car air freshener. All you've done in the last couple of days is set two PBs without trying to. There is a new sheriff in town.

On to tonight's hard distance epic fail...I set out to do 10 1K intervals with no rest, alternating between 22 and 26 spm. My target pace was 1:53 and 1:45 respectively (really just a guess). It felt really awkward trying to achieve my target pace relative to the spm. And then I crashed...

1:52.0 22 spm
1:43.7 25 spm
1:52.8 22 spm
1:45.2 24 spm
1:53.5 21 spm
1:46.9 23 spm
2:06.3 19 spm soft
1:45.5 24 spm
2:11.8 19 spm even worse, but I was dead
1:40.8 26 spm bit of a rally, but with previous rest, doesn't really count

Ended up at 10K in 37:16.7 at 23 spm.

I need to get some mojo back before Sunday's 4 X 1K