Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

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the water refill machine had no water and i barely had a lot to drink. I regretted that instantly as after 20 min (HR = 145) my HR drifted 10+ beats in 30 minutes.

It's what I get for taking a week off and then trying to recover from this minor surgery. But at least I have a better connection. Do I ignore the brief spikes of HR 5-10 beats above the norm?

Dehydration will increase HR drift, so I wouldn't worry about it. ALso after a break I find my HR is always a little higher at the same RPE, so it will probably settle down if you get back to regular rowing.

I’ll not worry too much about it. Week 15 day 2

5*750m 2R. 2:00 r21 2:00 r20 2:01 r20 2:00 r20 1:58 r21

2:00 average. Average r20. Need to use less r21 so I can train the r20, so even if things go bad in the 30r20 and I need to rate up to 21 or 22 I can still keep the average at 20 and have it count

At 500m at 2:00 for first interval my HR got to 179. 1 beat less than the same pace in April.

Still a decent interval. Week 16 I can either do 5*1500m 3R in the plan or try a 2k…

Depends on the time I have. The warmup needed is significant. I went up to UT1 in 5 min then did 3 bursts of r20 2:00, keeping recovery pace between. I’ll try experimenting with more…

[iain]

5*750m 2R. 2:00 r21 2:00 r20 2:01 r20 2:00 r20 1:58 r21

2:00 average. Average r20.

Excellent result and a good start at learning to maintain high work per stroke.

Week 16 I can either do 5*1500m 3R in the plan or try a 2k…

I'm not sure of the benefit of the 2k. If there is one I would suggest substituting for short intervals as your primary objective is likely more anaerobic threshold limited than VO2Max, so you will get more benefit from the longer than shorter intervals (the opposite of someone focussing on 2k short term).

Depends on the time I have. The warmup needed is significant. I went up to UT1 in 5 min then did 3 bursts of r20 2:00, keeping recovery pace between. I’ll try experimenting with more…

Personally I would limit the high work per stroke in your warm up. The objective of the warm up is increasing blood flow to muscles and kick starting the aerobic system. I find higher rate lower work is more effective in doing this and avoids the tiring of muscles that will likely limit performance on a session like this. That said, one burst is a good example to establish what you need to deliver.

[PleaseLockIn]

5*750m 2R. 2:00 r21 2:00 r20 2:01 r20 2:00 r20 1:58 r21

2:00 average. Average r20.

Excellent result and a good start at learning to maintain high work per stroke.

Week 16 I can either do 5*1500m 3R in the plan or try a 2k…

I'm not sure of the benefit of the 2k. If there is one I would suggest substituting for short intervals as your primary objective is likely more anaerobic threshold limited than VO2Max, so you will get more benefit from the longer than shorter intervals (the opposite of someone focussing on 2k short term).

Depends on the time I have. The warmup needed is significant. I went up to UT1 in 5 min then did 3 bursts of r20 2:00, keeping recovery pace between. I’ll try experimenting with more…

Personally I would limit the high work per stroke in your warm up. The objective of the warm up is increasing blood flow to muscles and kick starting the aerobic system. I find higher rate lower work is more effective in doing this and avoids the tiring of muscles that will likely limit performance on a session like this. That said, one burst is a good example to establish what you need to deliver.

Thanks! Tomorrow is 5*1500m 3R and I need to deliver. I will substitute for short intervals then, week 17 has 8*500m 2R. I’ll aim for 1:58-1:59 then, to give myself some leeway for the final sprint for my eventual 30r20.

I will limit to two bursts then to warm up and have a good idea of what to perform. Warm up of 10 minutes or more.

I’ll do a 30r20 to slot in if possible and check for progress. I think I should aim at 2:07 first the last 23r20 I did to be conservative. Maybe I can handle 2:05-ish but I am too scared of bonking the last few minutes before the sprint

As a side note I feel the BPP’s SS is too short, and that there is too little guidance. I also feel as if it was a bit “bare bones” and there should be some versions for 30r20 or 5k. As my coach said I should do UT2 for minimum 1 hour.

This dude is doing 5 hard sessions, 6-7 UT sessions and gym sessions. He is probably doing 13 to 17 sessions a week in the summer. Crazy. This is the standard I need to be able to do by next summer if I get into varsity rowing…

I need to bridge the gap somehow. Any tips? I will be conservative for now, except maybe in intervals.

[iain]

I find higher rate lower work is more effective in doing this and avoids the tiring of muscles that will likely limit performance on a session like this. That said, one burst is a good example to establish what you need to deliver.

The warmup needed is significant. I went up to UT1 in 5 min then did 3 bursts of r20 2:00, keeping recovery pace between. I’ll try experimenting with more…

I will limit to two bursts then to warm up and have a good idea of what to perform. Warm up of 10 minutes or more.[/quote]

I think you should do at least 3 bursts, it is just that I would recommend that all but the last are done at lower work per stroke and higher rating. For example in my warm up for my "strength" ergs of 10-12 maximum strokes with 1min rest between at R of 24-30, I use a final extra warm up of 3 x 100m about 1min apart starting at expected pace for the work out then 5S/500m faster for each subsequent one but free rate. So R24 would be about 1:50 pace. So the 100 bursts would be at 1:50, 1:45 and 1:50 and might be at R35, R40 and R50. THis is an extreme example as the "work" is at absolute maximum so requires the greatest warm up. I would typically have done bursts at 2:05, 2:00 and 1:55 race on my normal short interval warm up beforehand.

As a side note I feel the BPP’s SS is too short, and that there is too little guidance. I also feel as if it was a bit “bare bones” and there should be some versions for 30r20 or 5k. As my coach said I should do UT2 for minimum 1 hour.

This dude is doing 5 hard sessions, 6-7 UT sessions and gym sessions. He is probably doing 13 to 17 sessions a week in the summer. Crazy. This is the standard I need to be able to do by next summer if I get into varsity rowing…

I need to bridge the gap somehow. Any tips? I will be conservative for now, except maybe in intervals.

Agree that BPP is shorter than optimum for SS, but also suggests a higher intensity. The trouble with long SS is that this increases the recovery required and so the intensity needs to be carefully controlled.

13-17 sessions a week is comparable to olympic athletes and seems excessive for me short of the very top crews (so in UK Oxford, Cambridge and the few crews that have a significant number of potential internationals). Olympic athletes do this full time so do little except train, eat and rest for significant portions of their year, this is not consistent with being a full time student. As for 5 hard sessions a week, I would doubt anyone is capable of really going hard that often for long. It is possible that this is maintained for a short period to stimulate super recovery, but longer term it seems like a poor training schedule. That said I know younger people recover quicker and was no athlete at that age so am speculating.

Consensus is that weekly distance should not be increased by more than 10% and that this maximum is assuming that pace is staying constant, if you are increasing intensity as well, this needs to be reduced.

[p_b82]

<snip>
As a side note I feel the BPP’s SS is too short, and that there is too little guidance. I also feel as if it was a bit “bare bones” and there should be some versions for 30r20 or 5k. As my coach said I should do UT2 for minimum 1 hour.

Don't forget that increasing volume even at a lower pace/rate is increasing the intensity of the pieces - the trade-off as keeps being said is recovery and able to go properly hard at the intervals. (if that's the plan a person is following)

It's a case of 20mins is ok, 45mins better, 60mins better still etc. but if you don't recover, then shorter = "better".

Pete's got a 5k plan - which is more aligned with his normal lunchtime plan (so higher intensity than the BPP) - which you had a go at for a bit and abandoned as you said you were not recovering well enough iirc.

but I'm fairly sure there are other plans out there for 5k's with more prescription in the sessions - Pete's plans are purposefully vague.

You're not likely to find any plans for 30r20 as it is a "meaningless" benchmark row - it's a proxy for 2k ability - and is normally a training piece in it's own right and not a TT distance per say.

I personally don't think the BPP is the right start point for a 30r20 as a TT, if the 30r20 is the primary focus.

[PleaseLockIn]

Tried rating higher in intervals and keeping to my anaerobic threshold HR (176-183 HR, around, with 55 RHR and 205 MHR). 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:06 r28, 2:03 r29 and I had 1+ interval to spare. A bit disappointed that higher rate didnt result in a lot more speed, but to be fair I was holding back somewhat.

I kept within AT for the 1st 2, but drifted into TR for the last 2, and for the last 1 I was still in TR.

Interesting heart rate considering at r24 I went a few splits faster and the HR wasn't even as much higher as I expexted.

For these anaerobic threshold workouts, should I try to keep my HR in AT and the lower half of TR (so around 190)? Perhaps me going too hard on hard sessions and not at AT/low TR but longer may be why I bonk in endurance tests compared to my sprints.

It's interesting that AT/low half TR i could hold 2:07 r27 for 5*1500m 3R and longer, but 5*750m 2R I am at 2:00 r20 and can still push harder. Maybe I am significantly weaker aerobically?

Next week is a 8*500m 2R. R20, 1:59 start, try to get to 1:58 r20 average. Should I keep the average cap at R20, or should I ensure that each interval is under R21? My university counts a 30r20 as long as the average is R20, but if I start risking it too much at R21-R22 then I might fail and have to redo the test...

[iain]

Tried rating higher in intervals and keeping to my anaerobic threshold HR (176-183 HR, around, with 55 RHR and 205 MHR). 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:06 r28, 2:03 r29 and I had 1+ interval to spare. A bit disappointed that higher rate didnt result in a lot more speed, but to be fair I was holding back somewhat.

I kept within AT for the 1st 2, but drifted into TR for the last 2, and for the last 1 I was still in TR.

Interesting heart rate considering at r24 I went a few splits faster and the HR wasn't even as much higher as I expected.

For these anaerobic threshold workouts, should I try to keep my HR in AT and the lower half of TR (so around 190)? Perhaps me going too hard on hard sessions and not at AT/low TR but longer may be why I bonk in endurance tests compared to my sprints.

It's interesting that AT/low half TR i could hold 2:07 r27 for 5*1500m 3R and longer, but 5*750m 2R I am at 2:00 r20 and can still push harder. Maybe I am significantly weaker aerobically?

Next week is a 8*500m 2R. R20, 1:59 start, try to get to 1:58 r20 average. Should I keep the average cap at R20, or should I ensure that each interval is under R21? My university counts a 30r20 as long as the average is R20, but if I start risking it too much at R21-R22 then I might fail and have to redo the test...

NIce set. Pete certainly favoured pushing on and did not hold to training bands. It is these longer intervals that are the core of any 30' program, so only hold back to the extent required to ensure you finish. I would expect to be in TR for much of the second interval, hit AN in 4th and be in AN for the final couple of mins!

HR Bands are not set in stone. Some people have suggested that there is merit in maintaining HR below TR in that the training response is to increase Anaerobic threshold's proportion of VO2Max. But I have not seen any research on this and believe that these comments are more directed to longer AT sessions than PP long interval sessions eg 4 x 10'. But would welcome any thoughts / evidence / experience on this of others.

As for 500s, not convinced that holding back rating to R20 (or R21) is useful now you have successfully done 750s sub 2:00. I would concentrate on >10WMin. So if target is <1:58, R21. Alternatively you could either add intervals (10 sub 2:00?) or reduce recovery (try 1:30 at <2:00?).

[PleaseLockIn]

Tried rating higher in intervals and keeping to my anaerobic threshold HR (176-183 HR, around, with 55 RHR and 205 MHR). 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:07 r27, 2:06 r28, 2:03 r29 and I had 1+ interval to spare. A bit disappointed that higher rate didnt result in a lot more speed, but to be fair I was holding back somewhat.

I kept within AT for the 1st 2, but drifted into TR for the last 2, and for the last 1 I was still in TR.

Interesting heart rate considering at r24 I went a few splits faster and the HR wasn't even as much higher as I expected.

For these anaerobic threshold workouts, should I try to keep my HR in AT and the lower half of TR (so around 190)? Perhaps me going too hard on hard sessions and not at AT/low TR but longer may be why I bonk in endurance tests compared to my sprints.

It's interesting that AT/low half TR i could hold 2:07 r27 for 5*1500m 3R and longer, but 5*750m 2R I am at 2:00 r20 and can still push harder. Maybe I am significantly weaker aerobically?

Next week is a 8*500m 2R. R20, 1:59 start, try to get to 1:58 r20 average. Should I keep the average cap at R20, or should I ensure that each interval is under R21? My university counts a 30r20 as long as the average is R20, but if I start risking it too much at R21-R22 then I might fail and have to redo the test...

NIce set. Pete certainly favoured pushing on and did not hold to training bands. It is these longer intervals that are the core of any 30' program, so only hold back to the extent required to ensure you finish. I would expect to be in TR for much of the second interval, hit AN in 4th and be in AN for the final couple of mins!

HR Bands are not set in stone. Some people have suggested that there is merit in maintaining HR below TR in that the training response is to increase Anaerobic threshold's proportion of VO2Max. But I have not seen any research on this and believe that these comments are more directed to longer AT sessions than PP long interval sessions eg 4 x 10'. But would welcome any thoughts / evidence / experience on this of others.

As for 500s, not convinced that holding back rating to R20 (or R21) is useful now you have successfully done 750s sub 2:00. I would concentrate on >10WMin. So if target is <1:58, R21. Alternatively you could either add intervals (10 sub 2:00?) or reduce recovery (try 1:30 at <2:00?).

To be fair I had to push hard to get to barely sub 2:00 by the tiniest of margins. Besides considering my 5*750m 2R is sub 2:00 but my UT2 steady state is 2:29 (so almost 30 second gap) perhaps my aerobic base is just weak

I will start at 1:59 for my interval and perhaps negative split. Since I need to keep doing this for 30 mins - maybe I should reduce recovery to train myself to keep going at this pace even without a lot of recovery

I will allow some overrating of intervals but keeping the average at R20 then.

[p_b82]

I'm with Ian on this one - I see very little value for you to do the 500's rate capped to 20; the 750 while a slight shorter total distance is "harder" with the extra 250m per interval.

Have you done another 30r20 or 30min unrestricted to see where all this training has left you?

Because I know I've mentioned this before, you can do all the effort in the world but if it is not showing you tangible improvements it would suggest that effort might be being misplaced - and testing on a specific repeatable test is the only way we can trace our progress.

Another option might be a 5k or 6k TT open rate - useful as benchmark test to compare to peers + they're a good chunk of the way you'll need to go in 30mins.

[PleaseLockIn]

I'm with Ian on this one - I see very little value for you to do the 500's rate capped to 20; the 750 while a slight shorter total distance is "harder" with the extra 250m per interval.

Have you done another 30r20 or 30min unrestricted to see where all this training has left you?

Because I know I've mentioned this before, you can do all the effort in the world but if it is not showing you tangible improvements it would suggest that effort might be being misplaced - and testing on a specific repeatable test is the only way we can trace our progress.

Another option might be a 5k or 6k TT open rate - useful as benchmark test to compare to peers + they're a good chunk of the way you'll need to go in 30mins.

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/103400587

7094m 30R20, 2:06.8 which is not a lot of progress. But still some progress. And I did this in weather 10*C hotter and a bit more humid.

A lot of the effort is probably being misplaced though… now that I admit

[p_b82]

https://log.concept2.com/profile/2501432/log/103400587

7094m 30R20, 2:06.8 which is not a lot of progress. But still some progress. And I did this in weather 10*C hotter and a bit more humid.

A lot of the effort is probably being misplaced though… now that I admit

200m is good progress in a few months imo - looks like it was a max effort on the day - well done.

Keep at it - maybe tweak a few things, but on the whole you are making progress, and there aren't any shortcuts.