The Two Types of Training

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 10:11 am

lancs wrote:
ranger wrote:I am now doing all of my distance rowing, 1:43 @ 29 spm
So essentially you're still rowing with breaks as clearly your 'distance' stroke doesn't last much longer than 2k or so? Not much of a distance stroke is it?
The goal is 60min.

With my HR riding in the 160s, this is clearly within reach.

Rowing with breaks?

Well, true, I don't do a 60min trial each time out, although, yes, once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm.

Great training.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by rjw » March 16th, 2010, 10:31 am

ranger wrote:The goal is 60min.

With my HR riding in the 160s, this is clearly within reach.

Rowing with breaks?

Well, true, I don't do a 60min trial each time out, although, yes, once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm.

Great training.

ranger
Why the need for breaks? It should not be a problem for you to string 60 minutes together without a break if you are below AT. Time will tell!
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ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 11:29 am

rjw wrote:Why the need for breaks? It should not be a problem for you to string 60 minutes together without a break if you are below AT
Yes.

I think I will row a continuous hour of it pretty soon.

Just because you are capable of something doesn't mean you don't have to train yourself to do it.

As a 60-year-old, rowing (or doing anything else) for an hour with a HR flat at 170 bpm is not falling off a log.

It is still a bit of a task, one that I don't usually do from day to day.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on March 16th, 2010, 1:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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johnlvs2run
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by johnlvs2run » March 16th, 2010, 12:01 pm

ranger wrote:once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm
That is way too much hard rowing.

1) stroke rate too heavy; 2) overall pace too heavy.

You're leaving all your energy in your training, and not getting any return/replenishment.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
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ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 1:28 pm

John Rupp wrote:
ranger wrote:once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm
That is way too much hard rowing.

1) stroke rate too heavy; 2) overall pace too heavy.

You're leaving all your energy in your training, and not getting any return/replenishment.
I ride my bike for two hours after I erg.

This riding is all UT2, very refreshing.

BTW, 10 MPS distance rowing is not "heavy" at all, if you have done your homework and know how to row well (13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights).

It's "light."

11 SPI rather than 13-15 SPI, which I did for so many years, learning to row.

The high rate is also not "heavy."

As I have explained, I have lightened the drag from 185 df. to 145 df. and shortened the drive of my stroke so that I am in a 3-to-1 ratio.

In this rowing, there is much more resting (on the recovery) than stroking (on the drive).

Nonetheless, as I described as well, the quick drive, especially the acceleration through the middle of the stroke with the core/back and into the finish with the arms encourages a quick recovery of the arms and back, too, lifting the rate, simply from the rhythmic symmetries involved.

And no.

Once I get used to it, I don't have any trouble doing "threshold" work every day.

You indeed have to get used to it, though.

You need to coax your heartrate up slowly to your threshold.

It is unwise to force it.

This morning I was getting a lot of 165 bpm readings on my heartrate monitor.

So I am getting there.

I will want to see a steady 170 bpm for several days in training before I do a 60min trial.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by JohnBove » March 16th, 2010, 5:40 pm

John Rupp wrote:
ranger wrote:once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm
That is way too much hard rowing.

1) stroke rate too heavy; 2) overall pace too heavy.

You're leaving all your energy in your training, and not getting any return/replenishment.
Not if you're lying ...

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » March 16th, 2010, 8:03 pm

Rich: Have you ever gone under 4:00 for 1k OTW (at any rate)?
:lol:
Have you ever tried?

Oh, how stupid of me! I have to wait until you're fully trained
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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bama
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by bama » March 16th, 2010, 8:43 pm

14,916m 1:00:00.0 2:00.6 3/16/2010 44 L indoor rower C2Log

you can copy and paste from online log. did a 60 minute pb tonight just to see if you could do that. cant wait till I am fully trained
2k 6:58.8

ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 8:45 pm

JohnBove wrote:
John Rupp wrote:
ranger wrote:once I am warmed up, I am indeed rowing all my meters, 1:43 @ 29 spm
That is way too much hard rowing.

1) stroke rate too heavy; 2) overall pace too heavy.

You're leaving all your energy in your training, and not getting any return/replenishment.
Not if you're lying ...
Well, for my first 60min trial, I will take a shot at the 50s _heavyweight_ WR (17K), rowing as a 59-year-old lightweight.

Then I will try it several more times, pushing the pace down from there.

Should be fun.

Wish me luck!

ranger

P.S. The more ambitious goal will be to best Freed.

Freed's 50s lwt 60min standard is a full second per 500m better than Krum's 50s hwt 60min standard.
Last edited by ranger on March 16th, 2010, 8:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by mikvan52 » March 16th, 2010, 8:48 pm

Rich: Do you ever bother to rank any pieces other than 2k on the erg? If not, why not??

Seems to me you have a performance anxiety of some sort. Or is it a weight problem?

Here are pieces I've ranked in the last three years... What are yours?

Actually my 500m is faster now: 1:30.2 IND_V.... w/o "hard sharpening" even.... :lol: :lol:


Image


I don't bother to read your posts anymore unless they respond in substance to questions I've asked.

Why bother when you don't have any new results?... You have no record of any recent performances other than your smattering of 2ks...

I'll wait patiently.

Too bad we don't get the opportunity to race each other again OTErg until 2012... By that time you'll really be slowing down. Sad that you avoided Roy and me during these last three years... Wow! By then you'll have trained your HR up to at least 200 bpm I'm sure :wink: :roll:

Since you belong to a "team of one" why not design your own racing garb.

May I suggest you silk screen this on the back of you unisuit ? :P

Image
"Rowed to Nowhere"
Ann Arbor Basement RC
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 8:56 pm

mikvan52 wrote:the last three years
Get with it, Mike.

This is moment time.

Three years ago is ancient history.

Do it now or forget it.

(Thus spake the forum.)

:D :D

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 8:59 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Actually my 500m is faster now: 1:30.2
Sorry, Mike, but 1:30 for 500m is as slow as molasses.

I'll do 1:24.

I can do 500r30 @ 1:30.

What is the best that you can do for 500m @ 30 spm?

1:37?

Ah.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 9:03 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Rich: Have you ever gone under 4:00 for 1k OTW (at any rate)?
:lol:
Have you ever tried?

Oh, how stupid of me! I have to wait until you're fully trained
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Indeed you will.

And when that time comes, if I can rate up and you can't, well...

That's all she wrote.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by ranger » March 16th, 2010, 9:07 pm

mikvan52 wrote:You have no record of any recent performances other than your smattering of 2ks
Ah.

You are interested in 2K?

Here it is so far this year:

RANKING RESULTS 2010
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | Current 2010 Season

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V

I think I'll push my 2K time _waaaay_ down by the end of April, as I put myself through distance trials and sharpening.

Will you be pushing your 2K time down, too?

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: The Two Types of Training

Post by PaulH » March 17th, 2010, 1:17 am

ranger wrote: I can do 500r30 @ 1:30.
"I can do" is fascinating, but have you actually done yet?

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