Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

Rich:
I confess to having an ulterior motive... I want to race you in person some day. It has to be a a big venue such as the Agannis Arena or Masters Nationals. In the interest of getting you prepared for the OTW part, will you at least consider getting a coach to help you cross the novice threshold? Currently, I despair that I'll never get the chance to give you a good ass-whooping...
We've never met! Can you believe it? All those years of your having said "I'll race all the major indoor regattas".... Then... NO SHOW / DNS.... What a shame.

You could probably beat me on the erg. Then, again, you might "choke".

Do you bother to read my blog..? IF you did you might avoid the pitfalls I fell into over the last few years.. I have hundreds of posts about OTW... Read them. They apply to people like us.

Please do not post a comment on my blog though...you can do it here...

Consider preparation over BS-talk..
Prepare an answer after you sober up tomorrow morning.

See you at the BIG races, I hope.

BTW: Last weekend (?) My 3:40.18 1k otw..... was sculled at an average of 31 spm... My heat was sculled at 28 spm (an hour before)

BTW: I have sculled at 37 spm recently.... for 100 meters...at full pressure... You probably remember the posts we shared on the subject.
NO 60 year-old has the aerobic capacity to carry this through for 3.75 minutes at or near elite senior race pace!

Find me one who has or does.... not one who thinks he can because he did it on an erg...

In the end, I don't know if you believe all this stuff you write... The danger is that someone might....

How do I know?

A picture tells a thousand words:



Who is that guy out in front?

[Nosmo]

Take a look at the Lucerne world cup W1x: http://fisa.feedroom.com/
Ekaterina Karsten-Kotodovich wins with most of the race rowing at a 30-31.

Plenty of people can row 1K at 38. I certainly can. Mike you can too. My wife did her entire first race all over 40 spm (and she was older then ranger is now). The trouble is, rating this high is slower

[ranger]

Given our similar commitment to the sport, the physiological contrast between Mike VB and I couldn't be greater, so it will indeed be interesting to see how these things turn out over the years.

For my age, my aerobic capacity is freakishly high.

For his age, Mike VB's aerobic capacity is freakishly low.

The contrast comes out in terms of preferred rates.

Minus some of the technical things I need to learn how to do OTW before I am maximally effective, Mike and I stroke with similar power, 12-13 SPI (on the erg).

But given his freakishly low aerobic capacity, if he holds his technique together, Mike prefers to do a 1K at 28 spm, a 2K at 25 spm, and a 5K at 22 spm.

This means that in his UT2/FM rowing, if he holds his technique together, he prefers to rate 16 spm, as in a full pressure version of the video of his OTW rowing coming under the bridge in order to measure his "effective drive length."

If MIke's drive is .7 seconds, at 16 spm, where the stroke cycle is 3.7 seconds long, Mike is in _over_ a 4-to-1 ratio.

Yikes!

I now prefer to do my FM rowing at 24-26 spm, 8-10 spm higher.

At 25 spm, where the stroke cycle is 2.4 seconds long, I am in a 2.5-to-1 ratio.

The contrast couldn't be starker.

ranger

[hjs]

Rich:
I confess to having an ulterior motive... I want to race you in person some day. It has to be a a big venue such as the Agannis Arena or Masters Nationals. In the interest of getting you prepared for the OTW part, will you at least consider getting a coach to help you cross the novice threshold? Currently, I despair that I'll never get the chance to give you a good ass-whooping...
We've never met! Can you believe it? All those years of your having said "I'll race all the major indoor regattas".... Then... NO SHOW / DNS.... What a shame.

You could probably beat me on the erg. Then, again, you might "choke".

Do you bother to read my blog..? IF you did you might avoid the pitfalls I fell into over the last few years.. I have hundreds of posts about OTW... Read them. They apply to people like us.

Please do not post a comment on my blog though...you can do it here...

Consider preparation over BS-talk..
Prepare an answer after you sober up tomorrow morning.

See you at the BIG races, I hope.

BTW: Last weekend (?) My 3:40.18 1k otw..... was sculled at an average of 31 spm... My heat was sculled at 28 spm (an hour before)

BTW: I have sculled at 37 spm recently.... for 100 meters...at full pressure... You probably remember the posts we shared on the subject.
NO 60 year-old has the aerobic capacity to carry this through for 3.75 minutes at or near elite senior race pace!

Find me one who has or does.... not one who thinks he can because he did it on an erg...

In the end, I don't know if you believe all this stuff you write... The danger is that someone might....

How do I know?

A picture tells a thousand words:



Who is that guy out in front?

Great pic

[ranger]

Find me one who has or does.... not one who thinks he can because he did it on an erg...

On the erg, our peers in age are not me, although you overlook certain things that should be glaringly evident.

Unlike you, Jack Meyer can do a WR-level 2K on the erg.

And while you nudged him out just lately, you have been looking at his wake for years.

And while his erging is excellent, Jack isn't me.

I am not going to row 6:42 at 60.

I am going to row 6:16.

I am going to break the 60s lwt WR OTErg by 26 seconds.

So my physical advantage is another 6-7 seconds per 500m.

Mike, you don't have a hope in hell of beating someone with better aerobic capacity (such as a younger rower) who has passable technique and can rate up.

Just look at the 1K times for 20s, 30s, and 40s rowers.

They wipe you out.

They are 10 seconds faster in the first 1K of a 2K than you are in a 1K.

Why?

They rate up.

None of them would do a 1K at 28 spm.

They would rate 38 spm, perhaps higher.

If I pull 6:16, that's right about where we'll be on the erg.

I'll do the first 1K of my 2K at 1:34.

Your best 1K is 1:38.

ranger

[hjs]

rich:

Let's look at the last 5 years:

List all your performances at venues for 2k this past year.

Mine are 6:47 and 6:49. (not 6:50)
What are yours?
Your average is slower than mine.

List your best for the last 5 years as a lwt: Yours is 6:40. Mine is 6:45.

List your best lightweight 5k: Mine is 17:49
You don't seem to have one. Odd.

List your best hour piece: Mine is 16,139m
You don't seem to have one. Odd.

List your best 500m piece: Mine is 1:30.2
You don't seem to have one. Odd.

Please don't include any non lightweight pieces.

I erg 800k a year (recorded)
You claim 10 million (unrecorded AFAIK)

Will you will ever go to Nationals and row the 1x in any age or weight group? If so, when? Lwt is 160 (not 165).
Richard Anderson is not nervous. He's from Michigan too. Why not TT him since he's in your neighborhood?
I'll send you his email if you ask nicely.

If you procrastinate two more years I'll be in your age group.. Oops!

[Byron Drachman]

Find me one who has or does.... not one who thinks he can because he did it on an erg...

On the erg, our peers in age are not me, although you overlook certain things that should be glaringly evident.

Unlike you, Jack Meyer can do a WR-level 2K on the erg.

And while you nudged him out just lately, you have been looking at his wake for years.

And while his erging is excellent, Jack isn't me.

I am not going to row 6:42 at 60.

I am going to row 6:16.

I am going to break the 60s lwt WR OTErg by 26 seconds.

So my physical advantage is another 6-7 seconds per 500m.

Mike, you don't have a hope in hell of beating someone with better aerobic capacity (such as a younger rower) who has passable technique and can rate up.

Just look at the 1K times for 20s, 30s, and 40s rowers.

They wipe you out.

They are 10 seconds faster in the first 1K of a 2K than you are in a 1K.

Why?

They rate up.

None of them would do a 1K at 28 spm.

They would rate 38 spm, perhaps higher.

If I pull 6:16, that's right about where we'll be on the erg.

I'll do the first 1K of my 2K at 1:34.

Your best 1K is 1:38.

ranger

March 28, 2007:

Next month, I will row 6:16.

Roy's pb is 6:34.

By the fall, I will row 6:00.

As I do all of the races and prediction workouts, there will be no ambiguity in this conclusion: The gap between Roy and me is 8 seconds per 500m.

First up: FM @ 1:48

[mikvan52]

For my age, my aerobic capacity is freakishly high.

For his age, Mike VB's aerobic capacity is freakishly low.

#1: How many months separate us in age?

#2: Please provide a lab report on your V02 max (also known as aerobic capacity). Mine was measured in the UVM lab at 58.

#3: Refresh your memory as to what aerobic capacity actually is.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

Notice particularly:

"VO2 max is reached when oxygen consumption remains at steady state despite an increase in workload." This is best determined in a lab.

"VO2 max is properly defined by the Fick equation:"(you'll have to go to the site to read the equation)" when these values are obtained during an exertion at a maximal effort.
where Q is the cardiac output of the heart, CaO2 is the arterial oxygen content, and CvO2 is the venous oxygen content."

And this time, Rich, please do pay close attention to the concept of cardiac output. It is not identical to heart rate.

On another subject. My posts seem to have gotten under your skin a little. Please understand that I do not belittle your erg achievement even though I think you are not really a fully functioning lightweight. Your scores have been great in the early years... Recently, however, you do not have any scores except at 2k. In their place, and since this is a training thread, why not share some of your workouts with times associated with distances.. The newbies reading here would be thrilled.

Old business: Did you ever answer my request for an explanation => " How does one become a national class sculler in just a couple months after having a background of 80% of one's work being done on the erg (without any water speedwork)?
This is part of Plan-et ranger isn't it?
Can you now see a 1:30/per 500m split number appear on a SpeedCoach (albeit for just a couple strokes) as I can?
You will need boat speed, you know, to become National Class...
Just an idea.... The times you have seen on a (suspect) GPS are 1:58 to 2:05, if I remember correctly... even with the "identical" (to the erg) perfected stroke of which you've written at such great length.

Well, I'm off to the water for some distance work.... You should be in your garage along about now. You are right: We are different, just not most of the ways you say.

[ranger]

The most important elements of boat speed are physical capacity and training.

Technique is a distant third.

ranger

That's for sweep rowing. If you haven't noticed, Davenports book focuses on that NOT sculling.

No, it's not just for sweep rowing.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW: Last weekend (?) My 3:40.18 1k otw..... was sculled at an average of 31 spm

Ah.

So Leadville lied, just for effect.

I should have guessed.

9.5 SPI OTW is just too freaky.

8.5 SPI is much more reasonable.

2:07 @ 20 spm, etc.

I suspect that I'll be able to do that soon.

I have been getting to 2:07 @ 22 spm from time to time.

ranger

[leadville]

BTW: Last weekend (?) My 3:40.18 1k otw..... was sculled at an average of 31 spm

Ah.

So Leadville lied, just for effect.

I should have guessed.

9.5 SPI OTW is just too freaky.

8.5 SPI is much more reasonable.

2:07 @ 20 spm, etc.

I suspect that I'll be able to do that soon.

I have been getting to 2:07 @ 22 spm from time to time.

ranger

No, you slimy jerk, I based my assessment on Mike's rating when he came past the dock, with 350 to go.

While you 'suspect' you'll be able to do this and that on the water, the rest of us already are.

Once again, rangerboy, you attack others who have actually raced. Yet you have never raced OTW. And never will.

That's because you are a coward. A blowhard. A basement-dwelling troll afraid the light of day will expose you for what you are - a complete, utter, total fraud.

[ranger]

BTW: I have sculled at 37 spm recently.... for 100 meters...at full pressure... You probably remember the posts we shared on the subject. NO 60 year-old has the aerobic capacity to carry this through for 3.75 minutes at or near elite senior race pace!

The erg isolates these physical capacities.

Among 60-year-olds, limits for aerobic capacity have been set on the erg at 1:37 for 1K, 1:40 for 2K.

And with your wretched aerobic capacity, even at 58, you are already two or three seconds per 500m off of these standards.

Sure, I don't have a hope in hell of rating 37 spm for 1K OTW unless I revise these 60s lwt standards OTErg to 1:31 for 1K and 1:34 for 2K, my targets for this next year.

But if I do, your argument ("NO 60-year-old has the aerobic capacity...) doesn't hold.

Historically, a lwt 1:31 for 1K and a lwt 1:34 for 2K are times characteristic of the best late-30s rowers.

No 40s lwt has pulled 6:16.

ranger

[ranger]

A basement-dwelling troll

In nice weather, I erg in my garage; I row on the Huron River.

Lately, I have been doing 12K of each.

24K a day in all.

ranger

[bloomp]

The most important elements of boat speed are physical capacity and training.

Technique is a distant third.

ranger

That's for sweep rowing. If you haven't noticed, Davenports book focuses on that NOT sculling.

No, it's not just for sweep rowing.

ranger

No.

[ranger]

My heat was sculled at 28 spm (an hour before)

Yea.

That is my target for the Head of the Charles 2011.

2:00 @ 28 spm (7.1 SPI)

ranger