What Training Have You Done Today?

[jcross485]

I've been quietly following along all the progress in here, it's inspiring to see!

Training is going well; I've had only one day of no training thus far this year but feel like I'm recovering well.

I'm more or less on an EOD type approach - one day row, one day strength work, one day row, one day strength work, etc.

The strength work is focused around building my deadlift back up to a goal I have, as well as building up to a goal weighted pull-up number. I've added a place to do weighted dips in my garage so those have made their way in as well. Deadlift programming is still blocked with nine separate sessions - a light, medium, and heavy week with light, medium, and heavy days built into each before restarting. My plan is to continue this up until about mid March before moving into more of a deadlift and pull up specialization / peaking plan for 6-7 weeks to push towards the numbers I have in mind.

The rowing is focused more around the 500m for now. I feel as though my aerobic base is in a good place and while there's never such a thing as too much aerobic capacity, my training over the last 18 months has been largely skewed towards the aerobic side with the higher intensity work in there but lacking. My gut feeling was telling me that building up to a fast 500m first before leaning into the 2k would be a good way to go as I think having a bit of a reserve is going to pay off in the long run. If I can pull a 500m at 500w+, then pulling 2k at 300w plus in theory should be more achievable than if my 500m was 450w. Once I hit a 500m that I have in mind, potentially around when I test my deadlift and pull-up, the erg training will move back more towards a 2k focus.

[Sakly]

Strength session in the gym today, followed by a 3x10min 3r intervals at r22 with negative splitting.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	❤️
30:00.0	7,963m	1:53.0	242	1134	22	167
10:00.0	2,626m	1:54.2	235	1107	22	163
10:00.0	2,647m	1:53.3	240	1127	22	167
10:00.0	2,690m	1:51.5	252	1168	22	171

Would have liked to see a lower HR on these, but probably was not to be expected after training and poor recovery from yesterday.
This is my target rate for the marathon, but a bit faster pace. On this pace without a fan and higher temps than in my basement, sweat is building up fast. This will get a problem during the event for sure.

[alex9026]

The rowing is focused more around the 500m for now. I feel as though my aerobic base is in a good place and while there's never such a thing as too much aerobic capacity, my training over the last 18 months has been largely skewed towards the aerobic side with the higher intensity work in there but lacking. My gut feeling was telling me that building up to a fast 500m first before leaning into the 2k would be a good way to go as I think having a bit of a reserve is going to pay off in the long run. If I can pull a 500m at 500w+, then pulling 2k at 300w plus in theory should be more achievable than if my 500m was 450w. Once I hit a 500m that I have in mind, potentially around when I test my deadlift and pull-up, the erg training will move back more towards a 2k focus.

Interesting approach, I had the same intention, but felt so "out of shape" I took a 180 and decided to pay my dues to getting back in to a decent 2k shape. I dare say though, I naturally gravitate and am stronger over the distance stuff than I am raw strength/power so will be tackling 500m specific work from the aerobic end of the stick. Look forward to seeing how it goes for you.

[jcross485]

Interesting approach, I had the same intention, but felt so "out of shape" I took a 180 and decided to pay my dues to getting back in to a decent 2k shape. I dare say though, I naturally gravitate and am stronger over the distance stuff than I am raw strength/power so will be tackling 500m specific work from the aerobic end of the stick. Look forward to seeing how it goes for you.

The 2k is such a tough distance. You need big aerobic capacity, If your top end isn't there, then to put down a fast 2k, you will be working at a higher percentage of your max output which just isn't sustainable.

While I have a tremendous amount of respect for the track and field community and running community, I find rowing a better option for most people, especially for anything beyond a pure sprint, which in my mind, goes up to about the 400m mark tops (more like 200m in all reality).

The one negative is the lack of a weight bearing component; if someone who rows a lot incorporates some strength work and/or some walking, that pretty well takes care of it though, and I would also argue that, to be the best rower you can be, strength work is vital.

All of that said, there is just more data, information, and research out there on track and field than there is on rowing. Rowing does have some nuances to it because of the differences in stroke rates compared to other modalities and their cadences, but I think that looking at the training of track and field athletes competing in distances with similar time domains to those rowing distances one is interested in, is a good idea.

It seems to be getting more popular to specialize in longer distances early on now, but in the past, the vast majority of athletes would start with the shorter distance and more intense stuff and then move up in distance as they got older. The idea was to build speed and power early in a career, then slowly try to stretch that speed and power out over longer distances.

I am trying to do the same but within a shorter time period as I don't have a 10+ year "career" of rowing planned out per se. Build speed and power, then start to stretch that speed and power out over a longer distance.

[alex9026]

The one negative is the lack of a weight bearing component; if someone who rows a lot incorporates some strength work and/or some walking, that pretty well takes care of it though, and I would also argue that, to be the best rower you can be, strength work is vital.

If we are referring to 2k then in respect of this, I'm inclined to disagree. Though I incorporate it myself, it's not necessarily based around improving my 2k... 500m is a different ball game, but there are examples of excellent Erg'ers who don't touch a weight. As you allude to, the 2k is primarily an aerobic distance. Get fit, get fast, then maybe add some iron to the mix.

[jcross485]

If we are referring to 2k then in respect of this, I'm inclined to disagree. Though I incorporate it myself, it's not necessarily based around improving my 2k... 500m is a different ball game, but there are examples of excellent Erg'ers who don't touch a weight. As you allude to, the 2k is primarily an aerobic distance. Get fit, get fast, then maybe add some iron to the mix.

I agree, lots of excellent erg'ers who don't necessarily strength train. But, I don't know that they wouldn't be even better with some proper strength work in there. That also would be with an asterisk in that the addition of proper strength work does not take away from the erg training. It's one of those hypotheticals that I don't know we'll ever truly solve.

That said, I think most would agree that proper strength training is beneficial for other reasons.

[nick rockliff]

If we are referring to 2k then in respect of this, I'm inclined to disagree. Though I incorporate it myself, it's not necessarily based around improving my 2k... 500m is a different ball game, but there are examples of excellent Erg'ers who don't touch a weight. As you allude to, the 2k is primarily an aerobic distance. Get fit, get fast, then maybe add some iron to the mix.

I agree, lots of excellent erg'ers who don't necessarily strength train. But, I don't know that they wouldn't be even better with some proper strength work in there. That also would be with an asterisk in that the addition of proper strength work does not take away from the erg training. It's one of those hypotheticals that I don't know we'll ever truly solve.

That said, I think most would agree that proper strength training is beneficial for other reasons.

After 22 fairly competitive years on the erg, I've never done any strength work. Don't know if doing strength work would have made me faster and never will

[alex9026]

I agree, lots of excellent erg'ers who don't necessarily strength train. But, I don't know that they wouldn't be even better with some proper strength work in there. That also would be with an asterisk in that the addition of proper strength work does not take away from the erg training. It's one of those hypotheticals that I don't know we'll ever truly solve.

That said, I think most would agree that proper strength training is beneficial for other reasons.

Can't argue with any one of that, especially the last paragraph. I know with my own schedule, 80-90km a week on the Erg doesn't allow for anything additional, 60-70km allows for 2x strength sessions. More based around time than anything.

After 22 fairly competitive years on the erg, I've never done any strength work. Don't know if doing strength work would have made me faster and never will

A case in point...!

Whilst I'm online:
1:19:18.8 20,000m 1:58.9 208 1015 21
15:53.1. 4,000m 1:59.1 207 1012 21
15:51.3. 8,000m. 1:58.9 208 1016 21
15:51.2. 12,000m 1:58.9 208 1016 21
15:52.8 16,000m 1:59.1 207 1013 21
15:50.4 20,000m 1:58.8 209 1018 21

Incidentally, a little leggy from yesterday's strength session

[Dangerscouse]

I agree, lots of excellent erg'ers who don't necessarily strength train. But, I don't know that they wouldn't be even better with some proper strength work in there. That also would be with an asterisk in that the addition of proper strength work does not take away from the erg training. It's one of those hypotheticals that I don't know we'll ever truly solve.

That said, I think most would agree that proper strength training is beneficial for other reasons.

FWIW, I didn't strength train for significant amounts of time during covid and the lockdowns, so I'd guess it was about six months, or a bit more of doing no strength work at all; only erging.

During that time, I set quite a lot of PBs, but having caught covid and having lingering effects certainly muddied the waters for being able to properly gauge the impact following my return to weight training and pilates classes.

It feels like there's definitely a case for strength training for general health, but possibly there's a tipping point that the lack of erging due to strength training is detrimental, at least I think that's what was proven in my case, albeit the PBs were all 5k +, so it's not relating to the real power sessions.

[Sakly]

I would agree to the general tenor strength training helps for the short stuff 500 and below, but not necessarily much for the longer stuff being mostly aerobic. This is what I would describe for my own experience. Focusing more on the strength gains in my training helped for short stuff, but not for the long, as you do not work near to your strength limits at all, so it's not limiting your performance.

[IronMike]

Wife and I did day 1 of the Winter Wildcat today, a 2-day 10-hour/day orienteering event, where teams go out and find controls and get points based on how difficult the control is to find. Only 14.2 miles (22.5 last year) but last year it was cold but sunny. This year: Rain. Rain is the theme. And cold. Wet. The theme is wet.

We did the hilly section today knowing our legs would be hurting tomorrow. Tomorrow we're going to a pretty flat area, only hill being at the end to get back to the lodge/finish. The area we have to play in is 5km by 9km. Pretty big.

Can't figure out how to upload images. When I figure it out, I'll add the maps.

[jcross485]

After 22 fairly competitive years on the erg, I've never done any strength work. Don't know if doing strength work would have made me faster and never will

Did you ever have any interest in doing strength work for reasons other than to improve the erg scores or was strength work never much of an interest for you? Not judging by any means, just curious.

Can't argue with any one of that, especially the last paragraph. I know with my own schedule, 80-90km a week on the Erg doesn't allow for anything additional, 60-70km allows for 2x strength sessions. More based around time than anything.

I am in the same boat with time. I'm fortunate to be able to have a solid 6-7 hours I can give per week. If I could give more, I would and most if not all of that extra time would be on the erg.

FWIW, I didn't strength train for significant amounts of time during covid and the lockdowns, so I'd guess it was about six months, or a bit more of doing no strength work at all; only erging.

During that time, I set quite a lot of PBs, but having caught covid and having lingering effects certainly muddied the waters for being able to properly gauge the impact following my return to weight training and pilates classes.

It feels like there's definitely a case for strength training for general health, but possibly there's a tipping point that the lack of erging due to strength training is detrimental, at least I think that's what was proven in my case, albeit the PBs were all 5k +, so it's not relating to the real power sessions.

That makes sense to me. The further you go up in distance, the further away from a true max power output you're getting so you're working at a much lower percentage of the max. Combine that with longer distances being more and more aerobic, and more aerobic training would seemingly benefit those distances to a greater degree than strength work, I can see more time on the erg equaling better results.

Strength training was my background before I got into more endurance work, specifically rowing, so I could be a bit biased. I do think though that, rowing aside, strength training is important.

I would agree to the general tenor strength training helps for the short stuff 500 and below, but not necessarily much for the longer stuff being mostly aerobic. This is what I would describe for my own experience. Focusing more on the strength gains in my training helped for short stuff, but not for the long, as you do not work near to your strength limits at all, so it's not limiting your performance.

I wouldn't disagree with this, especially as distances go up and the event becomes more aerobic. I would just say that all things being equal, adding in strength work or doing strength work is a net positive.

[Sakly]

I would just say that all things being equal, adding in strength work or doing strength work is a net positive.

Fully agree here. From my pov strength training is the most important training with best carry over to daily life.
If I would need to choose between strength training or rowing to be my only thing to do, I would definitely go for strength training.

[Dangerscouse]

1:22:36.2 21,097m 1:57.4 216 1043 21 139
11:53.3 3,000m 1:58.8 208 1016 21 129
11:45.4 6,000m 1:57.5 215 1041 22 135
11:42.5 9,000m 1:57.0 218 1050 22 138
11:41.6 12,000m 1:56.9 219 1053 22 141
11:39.6 15,000m 1:56.6 221 1059 22 144
11:41.0 18,000m 1:56.8 219 1055 22 146
11:50.1 21,000m 1:58.3 211 1026 22 144
0:22.7 21,097m 1:57.0 218 1051 24 144

Faster than planned, but sometimes you've just got to go with the flow.

[Dangerscouse]

I would just say that all things being equal, adding in strength work or doing strength work is a net positive.

Agreed. Apart from potential injuries, there's no downside to strength training