What Training Have You Done Today?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
alex9026
5k Poster
Posts: 549
Joined: September 11th, 2022, 1:24 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by alex9026 » February 13th, 2025, 12:23 pm

Sakly wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:24 am
60min session today, aimed for a lighter steady. After 30min closed my eyes and focused on a strong stroke and let it just happen. It felt really good.

Code: Select all

 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	❤️
1:00:00	14,849m	2:01.2	196	976	18	141
7:30.0	1,822m	2:03.4	186	939	18	133
15:00.0	1,828m	2:03.0	188	945	18	133
22:30.0	1,830m	2:02.9	188	948	18	135
30:00.0	1,830m	2:02.9	188	948	18	137
37:30.0	1,850m	2:01.6	195	969	18	144
45:00.0	1,872m	2:00.1	202	993	18	146
52:30.0	1,881m	1:59.6	204	1003	18	147
1:00:00	1,936m	1:56.2	223	1067	19	159
Good to see you back at it. The timing couldn't have been worse, but equally, there really is never the 'right time' for an enforced set back.
34 6'2 92kg
1min 368m 500m 1:24.4 2k 6:24 5k 17:27

alex9026
5k Poster
Posts: 549
Joined: September 11th, 2022, 1:24 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by alex9026 » February 13th, 2025, 12:29 pm

27:50.8 8,000m 1:44.4 307 1357 26
6:59.4 2,000m 1:44.8 304 1345 26
6:58.4 2,000m 1:44.6 306 1352 26
6:58.9 2,000m 1:44.7 305 1348 26
6:54.1 2,000m 1:43.5 315 1385 26

Today was 4x2k/5:00, the session I least look forward to of the PP Lunch hour. This lands me roughly where I was last summer, maybe half a split or so shy.

I've two 20k's in the legs this week, low rate, yesterday looked like this:
1:18:45.5 20,000m 1:58.1 212 1030 20
15:45.9 4,000m. 1:58.2 212 1028 20
15:44.4. 8,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:46.5. 12,000m 1:58.3 211 1027 20
15:44.2. 16,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:44.4 20,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20

Last calendar year, my long piece was typically 16k, with the occasional 18k. Intending to keep the 20k piece in as my go to distance piece, two maybe three times a week time permitting. The accumulated load of 80 minute over 60-70 minute pieces should soon add up and pay off. That's the intention, anyway!
34 6'2 92kg
1min 368m 500m 1:24.4 2k 6:24 5k 17:27

nick rockliff
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2401
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:54 pm
Location: UK

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by nick rockliff » February 13th, 2025, 1:21 pm

Another 10k r24 this evening but a tad faster. I have always liked the 10k as a training distance.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
38:54.9 10,000m 1:56.7 220 1057 24 141
3:53.9 1,000m 1:56.9 219 1053 24 126
3:53.7 2,000m 1:56.8 219 1054 24 134
3:53.5 3,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 24 137
3:53.6 4,000m 1:56.8 220 1055 24 140
3:53.7 5,000m 1:56.8 219 1054 24 141
3:53.5 6,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 24 144
3:53.5 7,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 24 145
3:53.5 8,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 24 149
3:53.4 9,000m 1:56.7 220 1057 24 150
3:52.6 10,000m 1:56.3 222 1065 24 150

Quite comfortable session too.
67 6' 4" 108kg
PBs 2k 6:16.4 5k 16:37.5 10k 34:35.5 30m 8727 60m 17059 HM 74:25.9 FM 2:43:48.8
50s PBs 2k 6.24.3 5k 16.55.4 6k 20.34.2 10k 35.19.0 30m 8633 60m 16685 HM 76.48.7
60s PBs 5k 17.51.2 10k 36.42.6 30m 8263 60m 16089 HM 79.16.6

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3607
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Sakly » February 13th, 2025, 1:57 pm

alex9026 wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 12:23 pm
Sakly wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:24 am
60min session today, aimed for a lighter steady. After 30min closed my eyes and focused on a strong stroke and let it just happen. It felt really good.

Code: Select all

 Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	❤️
1:00:00	14,849m	2:01.2	196	976	18	141
7:30.0	1,822m	2:03.4	186	939	18	133
15:00.0	1,828m	2:03.0	188	945	18	133
22:30.0	1,830m	2:02.9	188	948	18	135
30:00.0	1,830m	2:02.9	188	948	18	137
37:30.0	1,850m	2:01.6	195	969	18	144
45:00.0	1,872m	2:00.1	202	993	18	146
52:30.0	1,881m	1:59.6	204	1003	18	147
1:00:00	1,936m	1:56.2	223	1067	19	159
Good to see you back at it. The timing couldn't have been worse, but equally, there really is never the 'right time' for an enforced set back.
I hope it goes all well now for the next 3 weeks :lol:
But this hour felt so good, it's promising and I hope I will have decent fitness for the marathon.

Nice 2k intervals B)
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:26.2
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

KeithT
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3242
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 12:41 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by KeithT » February 13th, 2025, 2:54 pm

alex9026 wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 12:29 pm
27:50.8 8,000m 1:44.4 307 1357 26
6:59.4 2,000m 1:44.8 304 1345 26
6:58.4 2,000m 1:44.6 306 1352 26
6:58.9 2,000m 1:44.7 305 1348 26
6:54.1 2,000m 1:43.5 315 1385 26

Today was 4x2k/5:00, the session I least look forward to of the PP Lunch hour. This lands me roughly where I was last summer, maybe half a split or so shy.

I've two 20k's in the legs this week, low rate, yesterday looked like this:
1:18:45.5 20,000m 1:58.1 212 1030 20
15:45.9 4,000m. 1:58.2 212 1028 20
15:44.4. 8,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:46.5. 12,000m 1:58.3 211 1027 20
15:44.2. 16,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:44.4 20,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20

Last calendar year, my long piece was typically 16k, with the occasional 18k. Intending to keep the 20k piece in as my go to distance piece, two maybe three times a week time permitting. The accumulated load of 80 minute over 60-70 minute pieces should soon add up and pay off. That's the intention, anyway!
Always a good effort to do 4 sub 7:00 2Ks - very tough session.
56 yo, 6'3" 205# PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 376m, 500m - 1:21.3, 1K - 2:57.2, 4 min - 1305m, 2K - 6:27.8, 5K - 17:23, 30 min - 8444m, 10K - 35:54, 60 min - 16110, HM - 1:19:19, FM - 2:45:41

Jbrown1215
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Posts: 178
Joined: January 28th, 2024, 10:31 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Jbrown1215 » February 13th, 2025, 3:15 pm

alex9026 wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 12:29 pm
27:50.8 8,000m 1:44.4 307 1357 26
6:59.4 2,000m 1:44.8 304 1345 26
6:58.4 2,000m 1:44.6 306 1352 26
6:58.9 2,000m 1:44.7 305 1348 26
6:54.1 2,000m 1:43.5 315 1385 26

Today was 4x2k/5:00, the session I least look forward to of the PP Lunch hour. This lands me roughly where I was last summer, maybe half a split or so shy.

I've two 20k's in the legs this week, low rate, yesterday looked like this:
1:18:45.5 20,000m 1:58.1 212 1030 20
15:45.9 4,000m. 1:58.2 212 1028 20
15:44.4. 8,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:46.5. 12,000m 1:58.3 211 1027 20
15:44.2. 16,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20
15:44.4 20,000m 1:58.0 213 1032 20

Last calendar year, my long piece was typically 16k, with the occasional 18k. Intending to keep the 20k piece in as my go to distance piece, two maybe three times a week time permitting. The accumulated load of 80 minute over 60-70 minute pieces should soon add up and pay off. That's the intention, anyway!
Great to see a fellow fan of the 20k! I find they're great chances to put on a podcast or audiobook and let the miles tick by...

Well done on cracking a sub-7 average for the 4x2k again; always a great milestone to reach. I have a visit to the same 4x2k/5'r planned as well for later this week. It'll be a good test to cycle through the PP's sessions again.
YT: https://shorturl.at/crBK5
Instagram: jbrown1215
40M, 6’3”, 205lbs
500m: 1:20.4
1k: 2:55.3
2k: 6:09.7
5k: 16:35
6k: 20:18
30R20: 8664m
10k: 34:07
60': 17069m
HM: 1:15:05
FM: 2:39:21

User avatar
IronMike
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Posts: 3
Joined: January 30th, 2025, 9:19 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by IronMike » February 13th, 2025, 9:28 pm

Well, been 8 days since we got our Erg. Loving it. Learning it. Today I did:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal S/M
27:26.3 5,000m 2:44.6 78 569 30
5:36.0 1,000m 2:48.0 74 554 31
5:37.4 2,000m 2:48.7 73 550 31
5:29.7 3,000m 2:44.8 78 568 30
5:28.1 4,000m 2:44.0 79 572 30
5:15.2 5,000m 2:37.6 89 607 31

Great week, really. For me anyway. Just getting started, trying to figure out how to fit rowing in with 3x/week lifting, plus orienteering on weekends.

Date Distance Time Pace
13.02.25 5,000m 27:26.3 2:44.6
11.02.25 2,141m 10:00.0 2:20.1
09.02.25 3,702m 19:00.0 2:33.9
07.02.25 2,423m 12:00.0 2:28.5
06.02.25 2,216m 12:00.0 2:42.4

Have a 2-day race this weekend with the wife so won't row again till probably Tuesday, depending upon how I feel. Can't wait!
57M, 5'8", 183#, RowErg since Feb 2025
Row PRs: no idea yet
Lifts: SQ 300#; OHP 127#; DL 305#
Swim PRs: 10 mile 4:44; 10K 2:34; 5K 1:48
my log

Jbrown1215
1k Poster
Posts: 178
Joined: January 28th, 2024, 10:31 pm
Location: California, USA

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Jbrown1215 » February 13th, 2025, 11:42 pm

A bread-n-butter Z2 20k today.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
1:18:18.8	20,000m	1:57.4	216	1043	21	128
15:35.5	4,000m	1:56.9	219	1053	21	126
15:39.6	8,000m	1:57.4	216	1043	21	128
15:39.5	12,000m	1:57.4	216	1043	21	129
15:41.5	16,000m	1:57.6	215	1038	21	129
15:42.7	20,000m	1:57.8	214	1036	21	129
YT: https://shorturl.at/crBK5
Instagram: jbrown1215
40M, 6’3”, 205lbs
500m: 1:20.4
1k: 2:55.3
2k: 6:09.7
5k: 16:35
6k: 20:18
30R20: 8664m
10k: 34:07
60': 17069m
HM: 1:15:05
FM: 2:39:21

PleaseLockIn
500m Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: November 4th, 2024, 1:58 am
Location: Hong Kong

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by PleaseLockIn » February 13th, 2025, 11:49 pm

IronMike wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:28 pm
Well, been 8 days since we got our Erg. Loving it. Learning it. Today I did:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal S/M
27:26.3 5,000m 2:44.6 78 569 30
5:36.0 1,000m 2:48.0 74 554 31
5:37.4 2,000m 2:48.7 73 550 31
5:29.7 3,000m 2:44.8 78 568 30
5:28.1 4,000m 2:44.0 79 572 30
5:15.2 5,000m 2:37.6 89 607 31

Great week, really. For me anyway. Just getting started, trying to figure out how to fit rowing in with 3x/week lifting, plus orienteering on weekends.

Date Distance Time Pace
13.02.25 5,000m 27:26.3 2:44.6
11.02.25 2,141m 10:00.0 2:20.1
09.02.25 3,702m 19:00.0 2:33.9
07.02.25 2,423m 12:00.0 2:28.5
06.02.25 2,216m 12:00.0 2:42.4

Have a 2-day race this weekend with the wife so won't row again till probably Tuesday, depending upon how I feel. Can't wait!
Hey, you did manage to row for 5000m! 8 days after my first 500m (to be fair i basically did not row) it would've been psychologically tough to row that. I suggest the stroke rate be significantly lower, maybe 18-20 for steady state work. But 30-31 stroke rate is OK for a TT 5k.

Once you got the technique somewhat OK and have a base fitness, you can start the BPP. I recommend a heart rate monitor to measure your exertion.

If Saturday and Sunday are spent orienteering, you still have 5 days to fit 3x/week lifting and 3x a week rowing. If you do lifting at the same days as steady state, you can spare 1x intervals and 1x lifting on separate days, and still have a day off.

I do 2x basketball, 4x rowing and 2x lifting. Polarized approach would be your friend here in rowing - steady state very easy, intervals are very hard.

For PBs: I did a TT 2k first before the BPP.
18M 175 cm 67kg

(Nov 2024 serious start) 2024 PBs: 6900m 30r20, 12*500m R1 2:04 r24 (last 1:59 r20), 7:58 2k
2025 PBs: 2:27 UT2 pace, 1:34.6 LP, 18:10 4325m r20

Dangerscouse
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10817
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » February 14th, 2025, 4:42 am

The 12k felt quite good, but I still didn't expect much for the annual 1402m Carole Mac memorial row. The 1402m felt so good I didn't want it to stop.

Carole was a former teammate and was widely loved and respected by the rowing community, so much so that we have one day a year that there's a CTC challenge for her.

47:28.1 12,000m 1:58.6 209 1020 22 131
5:58.1 1,500m 1:59.3 206 1008 22 124
5:55.8 3,000m 1:58.6 210 1022 22 127
5:55.9 4,500m 1:58.6 210 1021 22 128
5:55.7 6,000m 1:58.5 210 1022 22 133
5:56.1 7,500m 1:58.7 209 1020 22 133
5:55.5 9,000m 1:58.5 210 1023 22 135
5:55.5 10,500m 1:58.5 210 1023 22 136
5:55.5 12,000m 1:58.5 210 1023 22 138

4:47.2 1,402m 1:42.4 326 1421 30 152
0:52.7 250m 1:45.4 299 1328 30 139
0:51.5 500m 1:43.0 320 1402 29 152
0:51.3 750m 1:42.6 324 1415 30 155
0:51.2 1,000m 1:42.4 326 1421 30 156
0:50.4 1,250m 1:40.8 342 1476 31 159
0:30.1 1,402m 1:39.0 361 1540 32 159
51 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Sakly
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3607
Joined: January 13th, 2022, 10:49 am

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Sakly » February 14th, 2025, 9:53 am

Low intensity steady HM. It was a struggle all the way.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	❤️
1:27:38	21,097m	2:04.6	181	922	17	134
10:57.4	2,638m	2:04.6	181	922	17	128
10:57.5	5,276m	2:04.6	181	922	17	133
10:57.7	7,914m	2:04.6	181	921	17	132
10:57.5	10,552m	2:04.6	181	922	18	135
10:57.6	13,190m	2:04.6	181	922	18	135
10:57.6	15,828m	2:04.6	181	922	18	136
10:57.4	18,466m	2:04.6	181	922	18	139
10:55.6	21,097m	2:04.5	181	922	18	142
Afterwards the Carole McNally Memorial Row, no hurry, but a bit faster with negative splits.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	❤️
5:27.3	1,402m	1:56.7	220	1057	22	143
1:11.4	300m	1:59.0	208	1014	23	134
1:10.9	600m	1:58.1	212	1030	22	142
1:10.1	900m	1:56.8	219	1055	22	146
1:08.8	1,200m	1:54.6	232	1098	24	148
0:45.9	1,402m	1:53.6	239	1121	24	151
Male - '80 - 82kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 358m
4': 1217m
30'r20: 8068m
30': 8,283m
60': 16,222m
100m: 0:15.9
500m: 1:26.0
1k: 3:07.8
2k: 6:37.1
5k: 17:26.2
6k: 21:03.5
10k: 36:01.5
HM: 1:18:40.1
FM: 2:52:32.6
My log

nick rockliff
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2401
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:54 pm
Location: UK

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by nick rockliff » February 14th, 2025, 12:44 pm

Did the 1402 for Carole but r24

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
5:01.3 1,402m 1:47.4 282 1270 24 147
1:04.7 300m 1:47.8 279 1260 24 138
1:04.6 600m 1:47.6 280 1265 24 147
1:04.5 900m 1:47.5 282 1269 24 150
1:04.5 1,200m 1:47.5 282 1269 24 151
0:43.0 1,402m 1:46.4 290 1299 24 151
67 6' 4" 108kg
PBs 2k 6:16.4 5k 16:37.5 10k 34:35.5 30m 8727 60m 17059 HM 74:25.9 FM 2:43:48.8
50s PBs 2k 6.24.3 5k 16.55.4 6k 20.34.2 10k 35.19.0 30m 8633 60m 16685 HM 76.48.7
60s PBs 5k 17.51.2 10k 36.42.6 30m 8263 60m 16089 HM 79.16.6

p_b82
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Posts: 664
Joined: August 8th, 2022, 1:24 pm
Location: South Somerset, UK

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by p_b82 » February 14th, 2025, 2:13 pm

Mentally and physically all over the shop today - was shivering and had to go get a blanket while sat at my desk this afternoon (but not ill & no colder than usual in the office). Had breakfast and lunch too... Hr was down in the 60's before I got on the erg, so not elevated - if anything lower than typical by a few...

put in 10 mins that was supposed to be a gentle warm-up - ended up being anything but...

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
10:00.0 2,473m 2:01.3 196 974 24 162
2:00.0 484m 2:03.9 184 932 24 141
4:00.0 489m 2:02.6 189 952 23 156
6:00.0 491m 2:02.1 192 960 24 164
8:00.0 494m 2:01.4 195 972 23 172
10:00.0 516m 1:56.2 223 1066 26 178

HD'd on a 2nd 10 mins that was again supposed to be relaxed and easy and, well, wasn't.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
2:46.9 630m 2:12.4 151 818 19 158
2:00.0 452m 2:12.7 150 814 20 154
2:46.9 179m 2:11.0 156 835 19 162

Then bit off more than I could chew at 300w and HD'd again ~ half way... (which was stupidly optimistic given the two earlier)

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:16.9 366m 1:45.0 302 1338 30 172
1:00.0 286m 1:44.8 303 1343 33 170
1:16.9 81m 1:44.3 308 1360 28 175

Feels a waste/junky, but better than nothing at all I suppose.
M 6'4 born:'82
PB's
'23: HM=1:36:08.0, 60'=13,702m
'24: 5k=20:42.9, 10k=42:13.1, FM=3:18:35.4, 30'=7,132m
'25: 500m=1:35.3, 2k=7:39.3, 6k: 25:05.4
Logbook

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IronMike
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Joined: January 30th, 2025, 9:19 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, USA
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Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by IronMike » February 14th, 2025, 9:16 pm

PleaseLockIn wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 11:49 pm
IronMike wrote:
February 13th, 2025, 9:28 pm
Well, been 8 days since we got our Erg. Loving it. Learning it. Today I did:
...
Hey, you did manage to row for 5000m! 8 days after my first 500m (to be fair i basically did not row) it would've been psychologically tough to row that. I suggest the stroke rate be significantly lower, maybe 18-20 for steady state work. But 30-31 stroke rate is OK for a TT 5k.

Once you got the technique somewhat OK and have a base fitness, you can start the BPP. I recommend a heart rate monitor to measure your exertion.
Thanks PLI, my Garmin does heart rate but I have yet to figure out how to make it take my HR while rowing. Looked at the BPP; will def consider it once I'm more row-fit. The 5000 didn't feel too bad, but I hadn't thought of lowering the SR. I'll try that next time.
If Saturday and Sunday are spent orienteering, you still have 5 days to fit 3x/week lifting and 3x a week rowing. If you do lifting at the same days as steady state, you can spare 1x intervals and 1x lifting on separate days, and still have a day off.

I do 2x basketball, 4x rowing and 2x lifting. Polarized approach would be your friend here in rowing - steady state very easy, intervals are very hard.

For PBs: I did a TT 2k first before the BPP.
I like the idea of a 2k TT before I start BPP. Thanks for that.

I'm basically a M/W/F lifter and plan rowing T/Th/S (either Sat or Sun depending when orienteering is). O isn't every weekend so that'll give me some rest. But I've been a usually 6-7 day a week active person when I was a marathon swimmer, and with my crazy wife I get a minimum of 15K steps per weekend day, so I'm kinda used to being active. (As the 85 year old guy in my neighborhood who walks every day told me two summers ago: If you keep moving, death can't find you.)
57M, 5'8", 183#, RowErg since Feb 2025
Row PRs: no idea yet
Lifts: SQ 300#; OHP 127#; DL 305#
Swim PRs: 10 mile 4:44; 10K 2:34; 5K 1:48
my log

Dangerscouse
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10817
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » February 15th, 2025, 3:12 am

40:19.6 10,000m 2:00.9 198 980 19 125
5:04.9 1,250m 2:01.9 193 964 20 116
5:03.5 2,500m 2:01.4 196 973 20 122
5:03.2 3,750m 2:01.2 196 975 20 123
5:01.4 5,000m 2:00.5 200 987 20 127
5:01.8 6,250m 2:00.7 199 984 20 126
5:01.9 7,500m 2:00.7 199 984 20 129
5:01.4 8,750m 2:00.5 200 987 20 130
5:01.5 10,000m 2:00.6 200 986 20 131

I didn't have time for any longer, so this had to do
51 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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