The Two Types of Training

[whp4]

Winning thew TdF in 1996 Bjarne Riis was sucesfull riding a high gear demanding huge strengt and low kadence, something he had trained for for many years.

No chance his admitted EPO use during that Tour had anything to do with his victory, right?

[cah]

This is not the topic of the thread, but I will answer You: They all took EPO. At least he didn't wimp, and when they removed him form the annals (but not Pantani, Ullrich, Hinaut, Mercx etc. ) Riis told them they could go get his yellow jersey in the garage, where he put it in a box,

[TomR]

Following my pathetic performance in Detroit, I will continue to post inanely.
Feel free to do the same in response.
Every now and then some silly person, like the Dane, shows up and takes me seriously.
Maybe he will pay Henry the $1000 I owe him.
Others here know I can't be trusted to keep my word or make good on my debts.

[ranger]

his 6.41 is nevertheless impressive and much better than 6.47

Well, for the 55s lwts, that pretty much sums it up for this year, no?

Mike VB 2K times started to decline in January.

Mike's CRASH-B row was considerable slower (6:49.7) than his 6:47 a month before.

So nothing to be done there.

I now have seven weeks of sharpening to see how much I can improve before the end of this indoor rowing season.

I have completed my UT trainiing.

I am now doing AT work.

The gap between our 2K times is now six seconds.

If I get a solid AT 2K (e.g., 13 SPI 30 spm) pretty soon, the gap between our 2K times will be 20 seconds.

When this happens, I will move on to TR and AT work at higher rates.

Up, up, and away.

Mike's 2 x 2K (7 minutes rest) @ 1:46 was his AT work?

Over the next couple of weeks, I will do a 60min trial.

I think I can now hit my target, 1:44, perhaps better.

That's over 8 x 2K at 1:44, no rest.

Hmm.

ranger

[ranger]

Claus,I was being ironic, not you.
Roy Brook achieved that record on considerably less training than ranger

No, entirely false.

In the year that he set his WR, Roy did double sessions, spending just as much time as I do on his training.

He cross-trained extensively, etc.

Of course, he has to, or he can't row as a lightweight.

What is amazing is that, with all of this work and expert coaching, Roy didn't improve a whit.

Roy pulled 6:38 before all of this training (under PaulS) and 6:38 after.

No improvement whatsoever.

Then he just declined.

Now, I suspect he will have a hard time with 6:48.

The 55s lwt WR is _very_ weak.

The standard decline with age is a second a year over 2K.

So the 55s lwt WR should be (at least) 6:30, even by historical standards, given that the 50s lwt WR is 6:25.

I think I will put the 55s lwt WR quite a bit below 6:30 by the end of this year.

I am now 59.

Then, a few months later, I will put the 60s lwt WR at a similar level.

If these records are set below 6:30, they will become entirely inaccessible to rowers like Mike VB and Rocket Roy--by 20 seconds.

If these records are set below 6:20, they will inaccessible--period.

They will never be beaten.

ranger

[snowleopard]

In the year that he set his WR

Exactly. It took him a year. You can't get there in six Or is it seven?

[leadville]

Claus,I was being ironic, not you.
Roy Brook achieved that record on considerably less training than ranger

MUDO

I think I will put the 55s lwt WR quite a bit below 6:30 by the end of this year.
I am now 59.
Then, a few months later, I will put the 60s lwt WR at a similar level.
If these records are set below 6:30, they will become entirely inaccessible to rowers like Mike VB and Rocket Roy--by 20 seconds.
If these records are set below 6:20, they will inaccessible--period.
They will never be beaten.

ranger

that requires you to start, and row, an entire 2k without quitting. not to mention actually performing a documented 2k at the level you claim, which you never have.

Why don't you just claim to be better at basketball than LeBron James, or golf than Michelson, or cycling than Armstrong?

your logic would still work - "IF I ride faster than Lance, I'll be faster than Lance, then I'll be a world champion".

If I dunk over LeBron, then I'll be better than LeBron, then I'll be the best in the world".

Why limit yourself to erging, rangerboy? you've got a whole lotta fantasy yet to explore!

rangerboy, you sure your name isn't really Walter Mitty?

[ranger]

On the erg, Mike VB has never been much closer than four seconds per 500m from a legitimate WR (e.g., 6:30 for 55s lwts), and if my project is completed successfully this year, will be twice that, eight seconds per 500m,from the standard in his age and weight division by the time he turns 60.

ranger

[ranger]

that requires you to start, and row, an entire 2k

Not hard at all, when you are fully trained.

I have rowed lots of 2Ks where I was really done at 1K.

But no matter.

If you anaerobic capacities are geared up, you just hang on and finish, no problem.

On the other hand, it is a trick, of significant proportions, to improve your foundational rowing as an aging veteran, especially if you are one of the better rowers in your division.

At the moment, most ergers, such as Rocket Roy and Mike VB, just train to race--and that's it.

If you are a veteran rower, that won't make you better.

If you train to race, and that is all, you'll just get worse.

A lot worse.

ranger

[whp4]

his 6.41 is nevertheless impressive and much better than 6.47

Well, for the 55s lwts, that pretty much sums it up for this year, no?

Mike VB 2K times started to decline in January.

Mike's CRASH-B row was considerable slower (6:49.7) than his 6:47 a month before.

Hey, how about your last CRASH-B row? 6:29.7 a month before, followed by 7:04.3...if 2.7 seconds is "considerable slower" [sic], what would be a good term for for nearly 35 seconds?

[whp4]

his 6.41 is nevertheless impressive and much better than 6.47

Well, for the 55s lwts, that pretty much sums it up for this year, no?

Mike VB 2K times started to decline in January.

Mike's CRASH-B row was considerable slower (6:49.7) than his 6:47 a month before.

Hey, how about your last CRASH-B row? 6:29.7 a month before, followed by 7:04.3...if 2.7 seconds is "considerable slower" [sic], what would be a good term for for nearly 35 seconds?

A lot worse.

Yep, I think you've got it!

[BrianStaff]

If you train to race, and that is all, you'll just get worse.

A lot worse.

Well, you know a lot about getting worse. You got worse in a mere two weeks - 6:41 and downhill from there.

[whp4]

On the erg, Mike VB has never been much closer than four seconds per 500m from a legitimate WR (e.g., 6:30 for 55s lwts), and if my project is completed successfully this year, will be twice that, eight seconds per 500m,from the standard in his age and weight division by the time he turns 60.

So, this "legitimate WR" you speak of -- that's the one that is much harder than the "soft" one of Roy's that you haven't been able to approach as a lightweight, much less break in years of trying?

[leadville]

that requires you to start, and row, an entire 2k

Not hard at all, when you are fully trained.

I have rowed lots of 2Ks where I was really done at 1K.

But no matter.

If you anaerobic capacities are geared up, you just hang on and finish, no problem.

On the other hand, it is a trick, of significant proportions, to improve your foundational rowing as an aging veteran, especially if you are one of the better rowers in your division.

At the moment, most ergers, such as Rocket Roy and Mike VB, just train to race--and that's it.

If you are a veteran rower, that won't make you better.

If you train to race, and that is all, you'll just get worse.

A lot worse.

ranger

once again, rangerboy, you've got it wrong. as Mike has said repeatedly, he ergs to become a faster sculler. He does not train on the erg to go fast on the erg, but rather to go fast OTW.

Which makes his superior performance (superior to your's on average) all the more notable.

You merely train in a futile effort to achieve your unattainable 'goals' on the erg, while Mike, and many others, use the erg as a means to an end and not the end itself.

I would also note, that despite your endless bleating, you have yet to outperform your scores from 2003. In the real world, rangerboy, not in the fantasy world in your head. Despite your thousands of entries and millions of km on the erg, you've declined appreciably since that notable performance.

You aren't getting faster. You never will.

As for your claim that a 2k isn't "hard at all, when you are fully trained.", a 2k is ALWAYS hard; the better shape you're in, the faster you go, but the pain level - for those of us willing to tough it out for an entire 2k - doesn't change - no matter if you're completely, partially, sorta, kinda, pretty much, or really well, trained.

2k is hard for you, because you aren't a real rower. You are a quitter.

[whp4]

that requires you to start, and row, an entire 2k

Not hard at all, when you are fully trained.

I have rowed lots of 2Ks where I was really done at 1K.

In recent years, you've done a lot of those! Looks like about a 50/50 split between finishing with a 7 handle, and handling down.

I missed your answer about boasting to the kids about the latest performance -- do you handle that, or does your wife? Will the students be excited to hear of your epic row on Tuesday? It'd be a thoughtful touch to have some office hours on Monday, just for those eager beavers who can't wait until Tuesday to find out how you smashed the record