Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

(still no analysis of elite sculling footage )
as in... (still no selection of same by ranger showing "elbows in")

Rich: We don't really need or want your video. We want ANY video showing what you claim to be good sculling technique AND exhibiting that what you claim happens... Don't you have anything?

For others:
Bringing your elbows into your sides at the release shortens the stroke.. Among other effects, such form decreases the send of the boat.

[ranger]

We are old men, not elites...

Sure.

But that's just the issue.

Unlike the fitness of younger men, which just depends, pretty much, on human physiology more generally, the fitness of old men can vary wildly, depending on decades and decades of physical habits, and of course, depending on genetics.

Most old men, such as MIke and I, do indeed lose much of their fitness by the time they are 60.

The aerobic capacity calculator claims that any 60-year-old with a VO2max of 37 has "excellent" fitness.

Yikes.

When I pulled a 6:28 2K at 160 lbs. OTErg back in 2003, the estimate is that my aerobic capacity then was 76.

And as I have been arguing, this calculator might have underestimated it, given how poorly I rowed at the time.

If I pull 6:16 at 60 OTErg, also at 160 lbs., the estimate will be that my aerobic capacity is 78.5.

During his Tour years, Lance Armstrong's aerobic capacity was 84.

ranger

[Rocket Roy]

If I pull 6:16 at 60 OTErg, also at 160 lbs., the estimate will be that my aerobic capacity is 84.

During his Tour years, Lance Armstrong's aerobic capacity was 78.5.

ranger

Fcukwit!

[mikvan52]

Periodically I wish to remind people that I feel RIch is an excellent erger... Even if there are blemishes in his record..
Just do not listen to a word he has to say about sculling...
Let's congratulate him, instead, on his posting ability:
Posts: 11500
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm



His feeble attempts to put people down on his part seems bizarre... Let's leave it at that...
In fact:
Here is what I do:
First: What I did today (23k)

Anatomy of a 23k UT steady state OTW in a single

and as for what I've done at 1k..
An account of my best recorded 1k by a model of NK SL2 device which ranger and I both own.

Heats and finals in one morning.

Ranger "sees" 1:55+ pace per 500 at 1.000 calibration
I see the 1:30s. (initially) off the line at 0.975 calibration
See
this
blog of PB from last summer

To put this in perspective: Second Place ...(?) seven seconds back.. someone who wins at the HOCR and is a former National Team World Champ in the single..

ALSO:
There is no need for an old guy to rate higher than 30 spm with the kind of load I had with Concept2 Fat-Smoothie 2 blades set as long as they were for this race.

Rich: Do some research: How many lwt men ever get down to 3:40.xx for 1k in the "E" class (55-59) rowing against a slight current on flat water...?

We wait for your 2:04 1k this summer at a 24... knowing you'll never post a thing...

And Rich (?)

The least you could do is go watch great sculling up close in the flesh...

mikvan52 watching this year's US National Team W1x sculler, Gevvie Stone, as she breezes to victory in a heat at the HRR (elbows OUT)

[Rocket Roy]

Mike, awesome result, 3.40.x Brilliant stuff!

[mikvan52]

Thanks, Roy:

I expect you to be as fast once you get some OTW meters under your belt. It sounds, too, like you are taking advantage of many resources (ausrwr included!) on the Thames.

[Rocket Roy]

Thanks, Roy:

I expect you to be as fast once you get some OTW meters under your belt. It sounds, too, like you are taking advantage of many resources (ausrwr included!) on the Thames.

Well I am so lucky having so many people who want to help me. I mean Ali is an Aussie Olympic standard rower!! How many beginners get to have a row with such a top athlete. I remember him doing the Ramp test on my bike and getting to 600 watts ( I didn't increase the max watts because I didn't think anyone could get that high, yes I was embarrassed!) without breaking sweat when Genki could manage only 460. Byron and Larry also full of great advice plus your good self.

[ranger]

If I pull 6:16 at 60 OTErg, also at 160 lbs., the estimate will be that my aerobic capacity is 84.

During his Tour years, Lance Armstrong's aerobic capacity was 78.5.

ranger

Fcukwit!

Sorry.

Got the numbers reversed there.

I've corrected it now.

ranger

[ranger]

I see the 1:30s. (initially) off the line at 0.975 calibration

Sure.

If I can rate 38 spm for the entire 1K, I'll pull 1:45.

That's 8 SPI @ 38 spm.

If you rate 30 spm, you won't pull 1:45.

Simple as that, if we both pull 8 SPI.

Who can rate up?

Who can't?

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

You can test your fitness with the erg.

If you can rate up, you should be able to pull 1K, 1:30 @ 38 spm (12.6 SPI).

That's comparable to 1:45 @ 38 spm OTW.

The difference is 15 seconds per 500m at the same rate.

If you can only rate 30 spm when you are rowing well (e.g., 12.6 SPI) OTErg for 1K, you'll only pull 1:38 for 1K.

OTW, that's comparable to 1:53 for 1K.

In a 1K, 16 seconds (8 seconds per 500m) is about 10 boat lengths (80 meters).

ranger

[ranger]

I am slower than molasses OTW

And OTErg, too.

The reason, I suspect, is slow legs.

So your comments that everyone should be careful about how quickly they use their legs in the rowing stroke is ridiculous.

The best rowers OTW have their legs pretty much down when the handles of the oars cross their knees.

Do you?

If not, your legs are too slow.

And in rowing, if your legs are slow, you can't generate any power.

And in rowing, if you can't generate any power, you are as slow as molasses.

Post a video of your rowing, OTErg or OTW.

Let's see how fast your legs are when you row.

I don't think that having legs that are too fast is your problem--or the problem of 99% of the other folks who are slow as molasses OTW and OTErg.

Having fast legs is one of the most difficult things about the rowing stroke.

To have fast legs, you have to have good leg strength (quads, hams, and calves), great length, a relaxed your upper body, precise timing and sequencing of your levers, and excellent footwork.

Do you?

The erg gives you great feedback on this.

If you are rowing well, with fast legs, you should get the entire vertical rise of the PM4 OTErg with your leg drive in the first .2 seconds of the drive.

135 kgF

What kind of peak force do you get with your stroke OTErg?

Take that force as a percentage of 135 kgF, subtract it from 100%, and that is how far you miss having fast legs.

Do you miss it by 50%?

If you miss having fast legs by 50%, having legs that are _too_ fast can't possibly be a problem.

No?

ranger

[Byron Drachman]

I am slower than molasses OTW

And OTErg, too.

The reason, I suspect, is slow legs.

So your comments that everyone should be careful about how quickly they use their legs in the rowing stroke is ridiculous.

The best rowers OTW have their legs pretty much down when the handles of the oars cross their knees.

Do you?

If not, your legs are too slow.

And in rowing, if your legs are slow, you can't generate any power.

And in rowing, if you can't generate any power, you are as slow as molasses.

Post a video of your rowing, OTErg or OTW.

Let's see how fast your legs are when you row.

I don't think that having legs that are too fast is your problem--or the problem of 99% of the other folks who are slow as molasses OTW and OTErg.

Having fast legs is one of the most difficult things about the rowing stroke.

To have fast legs, you have to have good leg strength (quads, hams, and calves), a relaxed your upper body, and excellent footwork.

Do you?

The erg gives you great feedback on this.

If you are rowing well, with fast legs, you should get the entire vertical rise of the PM4 OTErg with your leg drive in the first .2 seconds of the drive.

135 kgF

What kind of peak force do you get with your stroke OTErg?

Take that force as a percentage of 135 kgF, subtract it from 100%, and that is how far you miss having fast legs.

Do you miss it by 50%?

If you miss having fast legs by 50%, having legs that are _too_ fast can't possibly be a problem.

No?

ranger

I am grateful that you point out the error in the Effective Sculling DVD warning about too fast of a leg drive. They should withdraw that DVD because they obviously don't know what they are talking about. That's ridiculous, as you say.

If you would just post a video of your OTW stroke maybe I could understand this better. I'm looking forward to seeing how you have your legs straight when the handles pass over the knees, and it would help me if I could see the proper placement of the elbows. Please don't make us wait another year. I need help right now.

[ranger]

I am grateful that you point out the error in the Effective Sculling DVD warning about too fast of a leg drive

Post a video of your leg drive.

Let's see how fast it is.

The best rowers get their legs pretty much down when the handle is at their knees.

I can't imagine getting my legs down _before_ the handle is at my knees.

Can you?

The biggest fault with most ergers is that they don't get their legs down until the handle reaches their stomach/chest, at the finish.

They have slow legs.

They engage their upper body too soon.

They have poor sequencing and timing.

They have bad footwork.

They don't accelerate the handle from catch to finish.

Etc.

As a result, they are as slow as molasses.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with have legs that are _too_ fast!

ranger

[mikvan52]

Byron & Roy and other intelligent beings:

Have you noticed that on the erg you can increase the rate to 45 or 50 spm and still be faster?
... marginally.... for a short while...
This does not happen on the water.

Rhythm and form has lower spm limits...

Too bad there are fools out there who feel otherwise...

[mikvan52]

I find it fascinating that there is at least one creature out there (hominid form) who feels that he can ignore valid questions to the most pertinent points of discussion...

Today:
* video of elbows in release by elite scullers
* identification of devices that record watts exerted in sculling boats
* validity of all claims (by ranger) about his own sculling times

Rich:
Troll comments don't float.
It's an entertaining diversion but there are limits to this type of humor.

and....
retorts of wild suppositions about your own OTW prowess....(?)
Please give that a rest, too.
You are not convincing, nor funny.