Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Byron Drachman
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Byron Drachman » August 20th, 2011, 7:24 pm

bellboy wrote:
Byron Drachman wrote:
Ranger wrote:No rowing OTW yet today because of the wind and rain.
More rotten luck on getting that 1K trial OTW done. Yesterday it was fishermen. Today it is wind and rain. I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

What are the odd's on an early snowfall Byron? Iv got ten quid burning a hole in my pocket at the moment!
MikeVB wrote: Frogs... :|

For it is written:

in Exodus 8
3. And Lake Europe shall bring forth frogs abundantly, which shall go up and come into ranger's frog pond, and into his batcave, and upon his erg and into the house of his mother, and upon his bluff, and into his food, and into his drinking bowl
4. And the frogs shall come up both on him, and upon his people, and upon all his virtual thoughts and deeds.

ranger's latest video of his 1k OTW work
Two equally plausible excuses. Dealing with frogs would help our hero prepare for the Frogtown races (Toledo), which is on his list of possible (read as virtual) head races. Mike, It looks like you have the latest, deluxe Ranger analyzer. I think it must be in the same series that Nav has. That is excellent.

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 20th, 2011, 9:38 pm

Today, the wife and I took the canoe and checked out North Bay.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safa ... CBoQ8gEwAA

Interesting body of water, and perhaps the best 5K rowing course in Door County.

In the summers, for over a half century now, I have been living here in Door County within a few miles of this bay, but I had never been there. I now see why.

The bay is about 5K long, running to the west out into Lake Michigan, running to the east into the Door Peninsula, with large points that jut out to the north and south, as wind breaks (etc.). What is so odd about this bay is that the water is only about three feet deep throughout, with a clean sandy bottom. This bottom is entirely free of vegegation, as is the bay itself, until you get near shore, where there are reeds and bullrushes, leading to a tree cover with impressively large pines, cedars, and hardwood. The sun bounces off this sandy bottom, through the crystal clear water, making silvery reflections, in mesmerizingly fractal patterns. The depth of the bay is very regular and is not interrupted by rocks of any sort. You can walk right across this huge sand bar, which stretches about a mile, north to south, and three miles, east to west, out into Lake Michigan.

Strange!

Because of the shallow water, there are no power boats on the bay, or even sailboats. There isn't enough water. And given that the water is not usable for most purposes, there are no cottages on the bay (to speak of), either. It's deserted! This afternoon, a gorgeous Saturday afternoon in the middle of the summer, my wife and I were the only ones there in this _huge_ tract of water, three square miles in area.

On the bay, it is so quiet you can hear a pin drop.

The inner portion of the bay has been bought up by the Door County land trust. This inner part of the bay is fed by two creeks and a series of unusual springs, and being a land preserve, abounds in various sorts of wildlife--blue heron, geese, sandpipers, etc. Out on the point to the north ("Marshall Point"), there is a (one-of-a-kind) private, gated community for millionaires.

If you start at the inner portion of the bay and row straight out into Lake Michigan, you can do 5K of rowing before you get to the point out in the big lake, where you leave the sand bar and enter deeper water.

The bay is a perfect 5K rowing course.

The shallow water keeps out both boat waves and waves from the big lake.

It is like a big river.

There is only one major access on each side to the bay, and on the south, this access is primarily for a couple of cottages that are there.

But the north side of the bay, off North Bay road, there is a nice public access, very friendly to a 1x, where you can just walk your 1x out into the bay.

Of course, you can also just stop and get out of your 1x wherever you are on the bay.

The water is only three feet deep, and the sandy bottom feels very pleasant on your bare feet.

The water is like liquid glass.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on August 20th, 2011, 10:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 20th, 2011, 10:08 pm

As far as 1K sprints go, the ultimate goal for me, now that I row well both OTW and OTErg, would be to rate 38 spm.

At 8 SPI, OTW, that would be 1:45 pace.

130 strokes.

7.7 MPS

OTErg, that's would be 1:30 pace (12.7 SPI).

114 strokes.

8.7 MPS

Time to start working on these.

OTErg, 1:30/3:00 is Castellan's 60s hwt 1K WR.

The 60s lwt 1K WR is 1:36.1/3:12.2.

The 50s lwt 1K WR is 1:29.5/2:59.

The 40s lwt 1K WR is a drug-aided 1:28.9/2:57.8

I dont know what other 60s rowers have done OTW for 1K.

Does anyone else know?

ranger
Last edited by ranger on August 20th, 2011, 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 20th, 2011, 10:40 pm

This is 38 spm.

Leg drive on the upbeats.

Arm pull on the downbeats.

Back swing in between.

Dance to the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIyjdml ... re=related

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 3:57 am

A significant advance OTW over the last few days is a return to the realization that keeping my elbows in close to my sides on the finish helps the tap down and release as well as the control of the elevation of my oars on the recovery. These things are especially important at high rates, where clean rowing is at a premium, if you don't want to look like an eggbeater gone wild in a cake batter, splashing batter all over the *** DELETE - SPAM ***.

I am also paying attention to doing this OTErg, so that these technical habits associated with better finishes OTW aren't upset by my dry-dock rowing.

Paying attention to keeping my elbows in at the finish OTW is no new thing, but it has taken on new importance because of the improvement in other aspects of my finishes, in particular, better contact at the footplate, better control of my back, better acceleration of the oars, and a quicker recovery into prep position. Now, when I keep my elbows in at the finish, too, I am _really_ in business. The boat runs beautifully. I really send it off at the finish, and as it gains velocity to its maximal speed, I don't check its run with my body position and/or sloppy bladework.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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hjs
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by hjs » August 21st, 2011, 4:42 am

ranger wrote:BTW, Dick Cashin rows his 2Ks at 27 spm and 15.5 SPI.

Seems to work pretty well, no?

ranger
keyword "rows", not types down :P

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Rocket Roy
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Rocket Roy » August 21st, 2011, 5:02 am

ranger wrote:A significant advance OTW over the last few days is a return to the realization that keeping my elbows in close to my sides on the finish helps the tap down and release as well as the control of the elevation of my oars on the recovery. These things are especially important at high rates, where clean rowing is at a premium, if you don't want to look like an eggbeater gone wild in a cake batter, splashing batter all over the *** DELETE - SPAM ***.

I am also paying attention to doing this OTErg, so that these technical habits associated with better finishes OTW aren't upset by my dry-dock rowing.

Paying attention to keeping my elbows in at the finish OTW is no new thing, but it has taken on new importance because of the improvement in other aspects of my finishes, in particular, better contact at the footplate, better control of my back, better acceleration of the oars, and a quicker recovery into prep position. Now, when I keep my elbows in at the finish, too, I am _really_ in business. The boat runs beautifully. I really send it off at the finish, and as it gains velocity to its maximal speed, I don't check its run with my body position and/or sloppy bladework.

ranger
Why don't you put your video camera on the end of your boat and post us a video of your fast rowing OTW, like Tinpusher did on his blog over here in Europe?
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 21st, 2011, 5:14 am

ranger wrote:A significant advance OTW over the last few days is a return to the realization that keeping my elbows in close to my sides on the finish helps ...
:shock: :shock: :shock:

Rich:

Try looking at this it might help...

A DVD:

EFFECTIVE SCULLING TECHNIQUE
STROKES TO SUCCESS

Review:
“Effective Sculling Technique – Strokes to Success brings top international rowing stars into your home. 35 Featuring Olympic stars including USA’s Aquil Abdullah, Great Britain’s Rebecca Romero, Italy’s Leo- nardo Pettinari, Ireland’s Sam Lynch and Gerold Towey, and Germany’s Katrin Rutschow, the DVD shows the technique that makes these athletes highly effective scullers. Whether you’re new to the sport,
a seasoned sculler, a coach or just an interested party to this great sport, this video will show you some of the fundamental technique performed by champions. The DVD breaks down the sculling stroke into dif- ferent components and provides commentary and graphics to help understand the mechanics behind each segment of the stroke. Using different camera angles and positions, freeze frame, slow motion and graph- ics, the viewer will enjoy a comprehensive overview of the stroke. So...sit back, enjoy and then get back on the water on your quest to become a highly “Effective Sculler.” Produced by the Fédération Interna- tionale des Sociétés d’Aviron (FISA), the international governing federation of rowing. Synopsis from the DVD.”


Try picking it up at ROWPERFECT

http://www.rowperfect.co.uk/shop/dvd-sculling-6.html


Then... go on to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6yHQ9hoJ_E
and ask yourself "Do any of these scullers keep their elbows in at the release?"

Want ergo footage of elbow details from a champ?
see:
http://www.quistmedia.dk/roklub/dm09/dm09.html
D L S
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 5:57 am

mikvan52 wrote: "Do any of these scullers keep their elbows in at the release?"
Yes, you're right.

Not entirely.

But quite a bit more than I usually do--and that was the problem.

If you _really_ flare out your elbows, as I had been doing, the tapdown is difficult.

Thanks for the video.

I've bookmarked it, and will keep studying it.

BTW, in the video, there's your 1:50 @ 33 spm.

No?

7:20 for 2K.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » August 21st, 2011, 6:03 am

ranger wrote:
mikvan52 wrote: "Do any of these scullers keep their elbows in at the release?"
Yes, you're right.

Not entirely.

But quite a bit more than I usually do--and that was the problem.

If you _really_ flare out your elbows, as I had been doing, the tapdown is difficult.

Thanks for the video.

I've bookmarked it, and will keep studying it.

BTW, in the video, there's your 1:50 @ 33 spm.

No?

7:20 for 2K.

ranger
Yes, those women put me to shame and go on for another 1k (!) B)
Maybe if I dyed my hair red and teased it ? :wink:
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 6:04 am

Rocket Roy and MIke VB--

OTErg, at least, you don't at all have to go fast to find out what you can do for 2K.

What you can do for 2K doesn't have much at all to do with your top-end fitness.

It has to do with how well you row.

As all of the standard training plans for rowing specify, just row at 22 spm and UT2/70% HRR.

What do you get?

Add 15 seconds per 500m, and that's your 2K.

When I am rowing my best, I now do 1:46 @ 22 spm, easy as pie, 145 bpm HR, 70% HRR.

The challenge for me now, at the beginning of my race preparation, is to train until I can hold that, steady state, for a FM, 2.5 hours.

This tests toughness, consistency, relaxation, endurance, etc.

Then I will be ready to race the other distances.

Once you have a FM in hand, rowing well, the other distances are a piece of cake.

As you cut the distance, you just raise the rate and HR.

Nothing much else needs to be done.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on August 21st, 2011, 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 6:06 am

mikvan52 wrote:Yes, those women put me to shame and go on for another 1k (!) B)
Maybe if I dyed my hair red and teased it ? :wink:
Yea, good one.

Beautifully smooth boat movement in the video.

Great stuff.

Beautifully calm, smooth water, too.

Perfect conditions.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 6:09 am

This morning so far: 15K of "Steamrollering" OTErg.

Out OTW as soon as the sun comes up.

Wind from the NW this morning.

This means that North Bay might be the place to go to find some smooth water.

North Bay is sheltered to the north and west.

The best place to row in the bay is just off the north shore, starting from the put in, which is to the northwest, and rowing east three miles to the point out in the big lake.

A new adventure...

ranger
Last edited by ranger on August 21st, 2011, 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 6:18 am

hjs wrote:
ranger wrote:BTW, Dick Cashin rows his 2Ks at 27 spm and 15.5 SPI.

Seems to work pretty well, no?

ranger
keyword "rows", not types down :P
Naw.

The keyword is "15.5 SPI."

There is nothing inherently suspect about a strong stroke OTErg.

I already have a sub-6:30 2K @ 12 spm, without even preparing for it, but at high drag and with many technical issues still unresolved.

I have now dropped the drag and resolved those technical issues.

I'll pull my next 2K OTErg at 13 SPI, fully prepared.

So, if I can rate 32 spm, I'll pull 6:16.

In terms of stroking power, 12 SPI by a lightweight such as me is the equivalent of 15 SPI by a heavyweight such as Cashin.

In terms of stroking power, 13 SPI by a lightweight such as me is the equivalent of 16 SPI by a heavyweight such as Cashin.

13 SPI @ 32 spm is faster than Cashin's 15.5 SPI @ 27 spm--by two seconds.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » August 21st, 2011, 6:25 am

Rocket Roy wrote: Why don't you put your video camera on the end of your boat and post us a video of your fast rowing OTW, like Tinpusher did on his blog over here in Europe?
Sure.

That would be fun to see.

How do you mount the camera on your boat?

Is there a gizmo that will do this effectively, or do you just tape it on (etc.).

My _fast_ rowing?

Like Tinpusher?

I hear that Tinpusher can't rate over 26 spm without losing control of his technique.

I think I can rate 38 spm--no problem.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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