Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Joris]

I think Pete was thinking as a minimum. 1S is a large amount,

Yes I'm aware that .1S was meant as a minimum by Pete so trying to progress faster than that was meant as an understatement. I added a smiley to my original post to clarify that.

so if you do not want to go much faster, set off at the same pace as last time then try and go a little quicker over the final 1k or so (0.1S average is 2S total over 10k that can be achieved in 200M!).

I considered that and it's certainly the easiest way to get my time down.
But since I want to get my overall speed up a bit for the longer distances, I thought it would be more useful to row a bit faster from the beginning to slowely get used to a higher steady state pace.
But if my heart rate keeps going up too much I will indeed consider accelerating only at the end.

[iain]

so if you do not want to go much faster, set off at the same pace as last time then try and go a little quicker over the final 1k or so (0.1S average is 2S total over 10k that can be achieved in 200M!).

I considered that and it's certainly the easiest way to get my time down.
But since I want to get my overall speed up a bit for the longer distances, I thought it would be more useful to row a bit faster from the beginning to slowely get used to a higher steady state pace.

But if my heart rate keeps going up too much I will indeed consider accelerating only at the end.

Just a thought as an alternative to repeating the same pace, if you recover fine great to go for a faster pace.

re Nomark, see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=208862&start=1605 Unfortunately size does matter on the erg.

[DJ1972]

Week 8 - session1 -  8500m – Technique, relaxation, and efficiency.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
39:30.3	8,500m	2:19.4	129	744	21	136
7:54.0	1,700m	2:19.4	129	744	22	136
7:52.2	3,400m	2:18.8	131	749	21	134
7:53.3	5,100m	2:19.2	130	746	21	136
7:54.3	6,800m	2:19.5	129	743	22	138
7:56.4	8,500m	2:20.1	127	737	22	138

As instructed, 'Technique, relaxation, and efficiency,' I must say that this is the first time I can finally stabilize my HR for a long session. I am very happy with this. Most of the time, it continued increasing, reaching 150 and beyond, and I was always wondering why. I've passed 500k since August. I guess that long-term workouts finally paid off. It just takes time and patience.

This was my primary aim before trying TT on 2k and 5k. I will be interested to see if this can be sustained. My next long session is after tomorrow.

[dmuskett]

Week 8 - session1 -  8500m – Technique, relaxation, and efficiency.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	
39:30.3	8,500m	2:19.4	129	744	21	136
7:54.0	1,700m	2:19.4	129	744	22	136
7:52.2	3,400m	2:18.8	131	749	21	134
7:53.3	5,100m	2:19.2	130	746	21	136
7:54.3	6,800m	2:19.5	129	743	22	138
7:56.4	8,500m	2:20.1	127	737	22	138

As instructed, 'Technique, relaxation, and efficiency,' I must say that this is the first time I can finally stabilize my HR for a long session. I am very happy with this. Most of the time, it continued increasing, reaching 150 and beyond, and I was always wondering why. I've passed 500k since August. I guess that long-term workouts finally paid off. It just takes time and patience.

This was my primary aim before trying TT on 2k and 5k. I will be interested to see if this can be sustained. My next long session is after tomorrow.

I haven't come close to this yet. My HR hasn't stayed below any arbitrary mark for pretty much any row, ever. I tried a few 30 minute rows with the goal of staying under 145 before I hopped back onto the beginner pete plan - I had to hang out at 2:32 or so, and when I dropped to 2:29 for the last split, the HR shot up to 152. Of course, pre-rowing, I was more sedentary than a rock. I also think I am doing the regular sessions slightly faster (for my level of fitness) then Pete intended. I'm a bit torn about this: everyone always talks all about steady state! Yet steady state comes from people who spend a TON of time rowing and need to optimize for the lack of an ability to rest. On the other hand, the thought of being able to sit down and just do steady state for an hour or two while watching a sports game sounds pretty ideal.

Speaking of the importance of rest: after absolutely murdering myself on those 4x750's on Sunday, I went and did the 2.3 5500m last night. I wanted to row in the morning but I knew I needed more rest than that. At first I went into it intending to work on stroke rate a bit, and do my splits at 18-20-22-24-26, holding a 2:25 because I knew I would be tired from the day before. I abandoned that quickly.

Honestly the numbers don't look anything out of the ordinary for my long rows:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal S/M HR
26:17.8 5,500m 2:23.4 119 708 19 144
5:15.8 1,100m 2:23.5 118 707 19 134
5:16.3 2,200m 2:23.7 118 705 20 141
5:17.0 3,300m 2:24.0 117 702 20 143
5:15.7 4,400m 2:23.5 118 707 20 150
5:13.0 5,500m 2:22.2 122 718 19 152

Yet during the time I was doing it, it felt tough. I never got to a point where the strokes felt easy. I definitely was still feeling the impact from pushing myself to my limit the day before. Normally when I focus on good technique and strong easy strokes, I find myself sitting at 18 s/m and doing about 2:20. Anytime I chased the same feeling last night I would look at the monitor and see a 2:33. I ended up just keeping the stroke rate at a 20 just to be able to maintain the pace, and ignoring my plans to experiment with stroke rate.

[iain]

I must say that this is the first time I can finally stabilize my HR for a long session. I am very happy with this. Most of the time, it continued increasing, reaching 150 and beyond, and I was always wondering why.

I haven't come close to this yet.

You are not alone. Anaerobic threshold for those who haven't done a significant amount of base training can be a very low proportion of max. Also stroke volume can be low and so a high HR will require a lower intensity than for fitter people, but a high proportion of max can be maintained for longer. As a result the HR zones (that are calibrated on people who are fit) can often not be appropriate. As a result RPE and reproducing sessions that have previously allowed sufficient recovery are a better guide. The good news is that keep going on the SS and you will see improvements and be able to maintain a reasonable intensity at consistent low HRs after some time. I suspect that the time this takes may depend upon your training history so those that were fit before will get their quicker than the previous couch potatoes.

[Dangerscouse]

I definitely was still feeling the impact from pushing myself to my limit the day before. Normally when I focus on good technique and strong easy strokes, I find myself sitting at 18 s/m and doing about 2:20. Anytime I chased the same feeling last night I would look at the monitor and see a 2:33. I ended up just keeping the stroke rate at a 20 just to be able to maintain the pace, and ignoring my plans to experiment with stroke rate.

I always take the perspective that this is good. When you're struggling from a hard session, it's like DOMS from doing weights (which admittedly isn't essential for growth, but it does give you a good feeling that you've worked hard).

When this happens just ease off and accept it, and remind yourself that tomorrow or the day after you'll be good to go again. Don't beat yourself up about the numbers not looking good enough, some days are just like that, and as you pushed yourself to the limit, this is exactly where you should be / need to be.

[Dangerscouse]

I suspect that the time this takes may depend upon your training history so those that were fit before will get their quicker than the previous couch potatoes.

I read something a while ago that mentioned that training history as far back as teenage years is also notably important, IIRC as this builds a far more robust base that is more efficient and productive, assuming that all other things, like physiology etc, are equal.

FWIW, I played A LOT of basketball from about 14 years old until about 16/17, and did shot put for the county for about a year when I was 13.

[p_b82]

I suspect that the time this takes may depend upon your training history so those that were fit before will get their quicker than the previous couch potatoes.

I read something a while ago that mentioned that training history as far back as teenage years is also notably important, IIRC as this builds a far more robust base that is more efficient and productive, assuming that all other things, like physiology etc, are equal.

FWIW, I played A LOT of basketball from about 14 years old until about 16/17, and did shot put for the county for about a year when I was 13.

Well in that case I'm in real trouble.... I started smoking at 14 & didn't quit until a week before my 25th birthday.

did a huge amount of climbing by the end my my time at school as my other sport involvement dropped though - I'd do a 90 minute bouldering session on the indoor wall, and then finish it with 50 2 fingertip* on each hand long-arm chin ups 3x a week in my last 2 years at school though..... (*was about the same depth as a normal door frame - but the hold had your wrists facing each other instead of a more usual position )

did nothing for my cardio really, but my upper body power-to-weight was the best it has ever been I reckon! (I was a lot smaller/lighter then too which helped mind!)

[Dangerscouse]

Well in that case I'm in real trouble.... I started smoking at 14 & didn't quit until a week before my 25th birthday.

Haha, like so many things in science, there's probably a study out there somewhere that suggests the opposite

[Nomark]

Since my steady state pace is rather low compared to others or compared to my interval sessions, I am aiming at increasing my pace faster than a tenth of a second each time.
Unfortunately, my first pace increase yesterday, from 2:30 till 2:29, was immediately accompanied by a significant increase in average heart rate, from 132 average to 138.
Perhaps it was also due to other factors such as inadequate recovery after the interval training the day before. Nevertheless, I will have to be careful about continuing to build up the pace. Especially because I want to keep considering the steady state sessions as recovery sessions.

Welcome back, hope you had a good break. Be kind to yourself and your target pace as you dust off the cobwebs for a week or so - it looks like you have been.

Steady state is so hard to gauge for me. Intervals are easier, just go all out! I know I go too fast on my SS rows, but I am mostly comfortable with that as long as I am recovered for interval days. The key (that I struggle with) is to try and ignore the pace - it's not the fastest I can go, so why put any stock in it? It should be on feel and consistency.

It turned out to be a good target because I just managed to make it (3 x 2:06 + final rep at 2:05).
As with the previous 2 sessions, my stroke rate was again significantly higher than last time though (27-28 versus 24-26).
For further progression, I think it's okay to maintain these higher stroke rates and be confident that my strength will continue to increase again?

Great improvement after your break, well done.

In my (limited) opinion, not only are higher stroke rates ok, they are desirable. 24-26 is a little too slow for all our. Even 27/28 is on the edge of the "recommended" 28+. I say go as hard and fast as you can manage, and if it rises again next time, all the better.

[Nomark]

Speaking of the importance of rest: after absolutely murdering myself on those 4x750's on Sunday, I went and did the 2.3 5500m last night. I wanted to row in the morning but I knew I needed more rest than that. At first I went into it intending to work on stroke rate a bit, and do my splits at 18-20-22-24-26, holding a 2:25 because I knew I would be tired from the day before. I abandoned that quickly.

Yet during the time I was doing it, it felt tough. I never got to a point where the strokes felt easy. I definitely was still feeling the impact from pushing myself to my limit the day before. Normally when I focus on good technique and strong easy strokes, I find myself sitting at 18 s/m and doing about 2:20. Anytime I chased the same feeling last night I would look at the monitor and see a 2:33. I ended up just keeping the stroke rate at a 20 just to be able to maintain the pace, and ignoring my plans to experiment with stroke rate.

Sounds like you are doing well on your return to the plan. Good and bad days happen. I think ideally you should have just kept with that easy feeling of 18s/m even if it was 2.33, as SS shouldn't be about pace as the main output. Not that I can talk as I can appreciate the theory of going slower to get better but my ego gets in the way.

I had a similar feeling on my SS today, week 7.3. Ended up as 8,000m @ 2:21.5 which is a couple of seconds slower than my usual pace lately and only achieved because I was putting in too much effort at times, chasing a time. My splits didn't look to bad ranging from 2:20-2:23, but my individual strokes were all over the place and my sr was too high. Probably from my hard intervals a couple of days ago. My lower hamstrings still ache slightly. I might have to start doing warm-ups before the next one! I know it's bad not to, but I've always coasted by. Going to try and ignore pace next time and try and be consistent, slow and smooth.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	S/M	
37:45.0	8,000m	2:21.5	23	
7:31.0	1,600m	2:20.9	23
7:29.0	3,200m	2:20.3	24.
7:33.0	4,800m	2:21.5	24.
7:37.9	6,400m	2:23.0	23
7:34.1	8,000m	2:21.9	23