Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Andrew Shuck
1k Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: September 15th, 2018, 4:05 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Andrew Shuck » October 6th, 2018, 7:55 am

SowfLondonRower wrote:
October 5th, 2018, 9:55 am
BPP 11.1: 10,000m - @2:08.5. Felt good, mostly around 21spm, pushed the pace slightly at the end to dip under 43 minutes. Feels good to have done my first ever 10k!

BPP11.2: 8x500m, 2min rest - overall pace 1:50.9.
Splits:
1:51.9
1:51.8
1:51.7
1:51.6
1:51.4
1:51.3
1:51.2
1:46.8

I realised a few days ago that I was slightly over-extending at the catch, so stopping that has let me up the stroke rate on my sprints and really maximise the pressure from my legs. Has increased my pace a good amount (as you can see from that last rep).
Nice one, I'd find 2min r far too short to recover enough..
Today my 8 x 500 3:30 r
1:33.4
1:33.3
1:33.1
1:33.2
1:32.9
1:32.5
1:32.0
1:31.2 Ave/ 1:32.7
1.1 secs faster than the last time.

Thanks everyone i'm finding your support/encouragement very helpful.
Male 57yrs. 6'1" 88kg.[u[/u] Left Hip Resurfaced June 2024.
Pb's achieved in 2019/20....500m 1:22.91k 3:00.2 2k 6:19.25k 16:50.5 10k 34:57.3 1/2 M 1:17:37.3 60min 16557 full M 2:45:52.7 2018 100k 7:37.27.1 23 Million meters to date
Just because you think you’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not..

rascott
1k Poster
Posts: 174
Joined: January 29th, 2018, 11:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by rascott » October 8th, 2018, 8:29 am

Back on the rower...

PP 2.1 - pyramid session...previous split was 2:04.2

Image
Image
Robert | 51 | 6'1 | 97 kg (214 lbs)
1 min: 300m; 1K - 3:33; 2K - 7:19; 5K - 19:22.7; 6k - 23:29; 30mins - 7315m; 10K - 40:06; 60mins: 14623m; HM: 1:35:14
Started C2 rowing Nov 2017 but rowed OTW in my youth

JMac
2k Poster
Posts: 221
Joined: June 7th, 2017, 3:33 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by JMac » October 8th, 2018, 3:03 pm

PP 2.1 Pyramid Intervals

Back on PP after 4 unplanned days off.

Target was 1:39

Those middle 3 intervals are tough!

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M HR
13:06.4 4,000m 1:38.3 368 1566 35
0:49.3 250m 1:38.6 365 1555 37 140
r: 1:30 34m
1:39.0 500m 1:39.0 361 1540 33 157
r: 3:00 20m
2:28.4 750m 1:38.9 361 1542 34 166
r: 4:30 26m
3:19.1 1,000m 1:39.5 355 1519 33 172
r: 6:00 16m
2:28.3 750m 1:38.8 362 1545 34 174
r: 4:30 27m
1:37.0 500m 1:37.0 383 1618 36 171
r: 3:00 13m
0:45.4 250m 1:30.8 468 1907 40 159
r: 1:30 18m
r154m
37 | 6'6" | 130kg

100m: 13.6 | 500m: 1:17.8 | 2k: 6:29 | 5k: 18:07 | 10k: 37:45

bob.haffner
1k Poster
Posts: 112
Joined: September 16th, 2011, 5:20 pm

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » October 8th, 2018, 8:24 pm

Last week, bled into this week :-)

Cycle 5, Week 2 of PP
Target was 1:53

I dislike this workout the most and I need to change my attitude about it

--------------2018-06-19-----2018-07-12----2018-08-08----2018-08-31----2018-10-08-----
2000-----------01:57.9--------01:56.5--------01:55.0--------01:52.9--------01:53.0--------
2000-----------01:58.0--------01:56.3--------01:55.8--------01:53.1--------01:53.0--------
2000-----------01:58.2--------01:56.3--------01:55.2--------01:53.3--------01:52.9--------
2000-----------01:55.2--------01:53.2--------01:53.0--------01:52.8--------01:51.6--------

AVGs-----------01:57.3--------01:55.6--------01:54.7--------01:53.0--------01:52.6--------
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

mjlawton
500m Poster
Posts: 76
Joined: October 7th, 2018, 10:11 pm

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mjlawton » October 9th, 2018, 10:19 am

Hi everyone. I am new to rowing and just bought a used model D PM3 for home use. Started beginner PP today with the 5000m row. 26 min 25 sec, 2:38 pace, 28 s/m. I am a 58yo female, 145 lb. Usual fitness is triathlon training, some pickle ball, some paddle boarding in winter (winter in florida). I have trouble maintaining a slower s/m...feels like I should pull faster, but when I tried to slow to 25 s/m my pace improved, so obviously I need to do longer, slower strokes. Damper was at 5, drag about 115. Any suggestions as to settings or what stroke rate I should aim for given my age/weight/gender is appreciated. Also, I will be out of town for 2 weeks without access to rower next month. OK to just pick up when I get back with the plan, or should I wait until I get back to start plan so I don't miss any weeks? Hoping we can fit the rower into the truck when we drive down to florida in December (through May). Looking forward to trying something new and improving! - Janet
Janet (F, 59, 5ft 4, 142lb)
started rowing Oct 2018

bob.haffner
1k Poster
Posts: 112
Joined: September 16th, 2011, 5:20 pm

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob.haffner » October 9th, 2018, 12:36 pm

SowfLondonRower wrote:
October 5th, 2018, 9:55 am
BPP 11.1: 10,000m - @2:08.5. Felt good, mostly around 21spm, pushed the pace slightly at the end to dip under 43 minutes. Feels good to have done my first ever 10k!

BPP11.2: 8x500m, 2min rest - overall pace 1:50.9.
Splits:
1:51.9
1:51.8
1:51.7
1:51.6
1:51.4
1:51.3
1:51.2
1:46.8

I realised a few days ago that I was slightly over-extending at the catch, so stopping that has let me up the stroke rate on my sprints and really maximise the pressure from my legs. Has increased my pace a good amount (as you can see from that last rep).
Nice work, Rob. I'd hate to do that interval with only 2 mins rest
Andrew Shuck wrote:
October 6th, 2018, 7:55 am
Nice one, I'd find 2min r far too short to recover enough..
Today my 8 x 500 3:30 r
1:33.4
1:33.3
1:33.1
1:33.2
1:32.9
1:32.5
1:32.0
1:31.2 Ave/ 1:32.7
1.1 secs faster than the last time.

Thanks everyone i'm finding your support/encouragement very helpful.
So solid, Andrew. Your times inspire me
rascott wrote:
October 8th, 2018, 8:29 am
Back on the rower...

PP 2.1 - pyramid session...previous split was 2:04.2
Solid session, Robert. The Pyramid is evil
JMac wrote:
October 8th, 2018, 3:03 pm
PP 2.1 Pyramid Intervals

Back on PP after 4 unplanned days off.

Target was 1:39

Those middle 3 intervals are tough!

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M HR
13:06.4 4,000m 1:38.3 368 1566 35
0:49.3 250m 1:38.6 365 1555 37 140
r: 1:30 34m
1:39.0 500m 1:39.0 361 1540 33 157
r: 3:00 20m
2:28.4 750m 1:38.9 361 1542 34 166
r: 4:30 26m
3:19.1 1,000m 1:39.5 355 1519 33 172
r: 6:00 16m
2:28.3 750m 1:38.8 362 1545 34 174
r: 4:30 27m
1:37.0 500m 1:37.0 383 1618 36 171
r: 3:00 13m
0:45.4 250m 1:30.8 468 1907 40 159
r: 1:30 18m
r154m
Nice work, Jmac. Way to keep the pace throughout the middle
mjlawton wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 10:19 am
Hi everyone. I am new to rowing and just bought a used model D PM3 for home use. Started beginner PP today with the 5000m row. 26 min 25 sec, 2:38 pace, 28 s/m. I am a 58yo female, 145 lb. Usual fitness is triathlon training, some pickle ball, some paddle boarding in winter (winter in florida). I have trouble maintaining a slower s/m...feels like I should pull faster, but when I tried to slow to 25 s/m my pace improved, so obviously I need to do longer, slower strokes. Damper was at 5, drag about 115. Any suggestions as to settings or what stroke rate I should aim for given my age/weight/gender is appreciated. Also, I will be out of town for 2 weeks without access to rower next month. OK to just pick up when I get back with the plan, or should I wait until I get back to start plan so I don't miss any weeks? Hoping we can fit the rower into the truck when we drive down to florida in December (through May). Looking forward to trying something new and improving! - Janet
Welcome, Janet! Very impressive 5K time for a beginner. I don't have any good feedback for your stroke rate, but a lot of knowledgeable folks watch this thread and will likely chime in
I'm a little old, kinda heavy and somewhat tall... 2 outta 3 ain't bad

mdpfirrman
10k Poster
Posts: 1692
Joined: January 23rd, 2015, 4:03 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » October 9th, 2018, 1:59 pm

mjlawton wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 10:19 am
Hi everyone. I am new to rowing and just bought a used model D PM3 for home use. Started beginner PP today with the 5000m row. 26 min 25 sec, 2:38 pace, 28 s/m. I am a 58yo female, 145 lb. Usual fitness is triathlon training, some pickle ball, some paddle boarding in winter (winter in florida). I have trouble maintaining a slower s/m...feels like I should pull faster, but when I tried to slow to 25 s/m my pace improved, so obviously I need to do longer, slower strokes. Damper was at 5, drag about 115. Any suggestions as to settings or what stroke rate I should aim for given my age/weight/gender is appreciated. Also, I will be out of town for 2 weeks without access to rower next month. OK to just pick up when I get back with the plan, or should I wait until I get back to start plan so I don't miss any weeks? Hoping we can fit the rower into the truck when we drive down to florida in December (through May). Looking forward to trying something new and improving! - Janet
Hi Janet, welcome to the PP forum! Nice to have BPP members (the Beginner Pete Plan).

To answer your question, Drag Factor (damper is different depending on machine but DF is consistent, so use that -- it's good you obviously know how to find it) is something very personal. In general, most women use 100 to 110. Most men, roughly 110 to 115, some 120 even. To me, 115 sounds kind of high for a female (or male) your weight. Since, though, you've done Triathlon training (something which requires very strong endurance), perhaps it's OK. For example, I'm 5' 10", 190 lbs. My PB race this last year (7:11 2K) I used a 103 DF (28/29 SR). The year before, I trained all year with around a 115 DF and raced a 7:19 but at a 25 SR! So different dampers end up working different things -- endurance strength versus speed/aerobic capacity. I find at higher dampers that I get a real lactic acid buildup that is intolerable. At lower DFs with higher SR, cardio might be my limiting factor. Play around with it. Most use higher DFs on sprints and then lower on longer rows.

As far as your SR, it does seem a bit high. But more important than your age/weight is your height as it applies to SR. Taller rowers will naturally have a longer stroke and therefore a lower SR. Shorter rowers will naturally have higher SRs. You do have to be careful with unnaturally elongating the stroke not to overextend, overreach. If your knees go over your toes, you've overextended. The length you get is from your flexibility at your waist and your arm length with fingers relaxed. When you start your drive, your arms should be fully extended. You also gain length at the end by moving the body to a 1 O'clock position on the finish. Again, you don't want to lean too far back (just like at the catch) because you will waste momentum. My guess is that your cardio is really solid and that you're able to go at a higher SR for a while but you'd likely be better off doing around a 23/24 for most longer rows once you get the stroke form down. I would bet it's inefficiency now, which is very normal for a newer rower.

Dark Horse Rowing and Decent Rowing on YouTube have some good videos on form. By far the best I've seen on YouTube. The other really good one is the C2 one with the woman on the dock breaking down the stroke into parts. That's excellent as well. Practice warmups and cooldowns unstrapped. That does help give you not only better feedback on proper sequencing (it's hard to explain but if you do it wrong you'll fall off the back of the rower) but it helps you really feel what it feels like to start off with a powerful leg drive and not rely on your back to pull.

To all - your all killing it and making me envious. Slowly working back from the back issue. Getting up to 8K rows in now. Not much longer and perhaps I'll join back in the fun!
Image

Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

JMac
2k Poster
Posts: 221
Joined: June 7th, 2017, 3:33 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by JMac » October 9th, 2018, 3:01 pm

Thanks Bob!

Today was PP 2.2

Decided to go for a 45min row and tried to keep HR moderate (around 155 at my current level of fitness)


Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M HR
45:00.0 11,014m2:02.5 190 953 21 155
9:00.0 2,227m 2:01.2 196 975 21 147
18:00.0 2,232m 2:00.9 198 980 20 152
27:00.0 2,199m 2:02.7 189 950 23 156
36:00.0 2,142m 2:06.0 175 901 20 157
45:00.0 2,215m 2:01.9 193 964 21 166
37 | 6'6" | 130kg

100m: 13.6 | 500m: 1:17.8 | 2k: 6:29 | 5k: 18:07 | 10k: 37:45

jacket
Paddler
Posts: 21
Joined: September 7th, 2018, 12:50 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jacket » October 9th, 2018, 4:53 pm

Hi all

I'm following the 5k plan but the 3 times a week option. That said I have, 5 weeks in, just started adding an extra distance session. For my distance pieces I'm doing 45 mins and aiming for 22-24 spm. My current 5k time is about 20 mins though I think I could go under 20 mins now. My question is, when doing the distance piece what should my split times be, I've done one at 2:07.4 which gave me an AHB of 136 but today I did 2:04.9 but my AHB was 142. My age is 58 and I recon my MHR is about 167. I have read that AHB during training should be 70-80% of max. but never over 85%, but also that ones MHB can vary +/- 20 BPM from any calculation. The piece I rowed today I did with my eyes closed most of the time so I was not conscious of my splits but just kept to a pace that I felt comfortable with. I was sweating at the end of it but not panting. I don't want to be "over training" but at the same time I want to make sure I am getting the maximum benifit from it. So, should I stick with the slightly faster rate and higher AHB or slow down to keep my AHB in the 70-80% window? All thoughts welcome.

Many thanks. jp

rascott
1k Poster
Posts: 174
Joined: January 29th, 2018, 11:04 am
Location: UK

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by rascott » October 9th, 2018, 5:46 pm

Hi Mike good to hear from you again, hope you are back on the PP soon. I’m enjoying it and I think I’ve got some way to go before I hit the buffers.

Janet welcome. What Mike said! Key thing is nail the technique and good things will follow. Your splits will improve with no increase in fitness if you sort your technique.
Robert | 51 | 6'1 | 97 kg (214 lbs)
1 min: 300m; 1K - 3:33; 2K - 7:19; 5K - 19:22.7; 6k - 23:29; 30mins - 7315m; 10K - 40:06; 60mins: 14623m; HM: 1:35:14
Started C2 rowing Nov 2017 but rowed OTW in my youth

mjlawton
500m Poster
Posts: 76
Joined: October 7th, 2018, 10:11 pm

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mjlawton » October 9th, 2018, 11:36 pm

Thanks for the welcomes and comments Bob, Mike and Robert. I am just shy of 5ft 4, so good info on the differences in stroke rates for different heights. I have watched the dock video and others, but will have my husband video me so I can compare to the videos. I may have been leaning back a bit far to try and get more power as my back felt it a bit today. Not surprising though, considering I have only rowed 3 or 4 times this month (and not much before that ever) before the 5k test. Jogged today too as I had a heart monitor on today for some excessive HR when exercising that they are checking out. Wanted to do a few different things to try to give them as much info as possible. Looking forward to learning from this board and improving my stroke! Thanks, Janet
Janet (F, 59, 5ft 4, 142lb)
started rowing Oct 2018

mdpfirrman
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Posts: 1692
Joined: January 23rd, 2015, 4:03 pm
Location: Catalina, AZ

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » October 10th, 2018, 9:49 am

jacket wrote:
October 9th, 2018, 4:53 pm
Hi all

I'm following the 5k plan but the 3 times a week option. That said I have, 5 weeks in, just started adding an extra distance session. For my distance pieces I'm doing 45 mins and aiming for 22-24 spm. My current 5k time is about 20 mins though I think I could go under 20 mins now. My question is, when doing the distance piece what should my split times be, I've done one at 2:07.4 which gave me an AHB of 136 but today I did 2:04.9 but my AHB was 142. My age is 58 and I recon my MHR is about 167. I have read that AHB during training should be 70-80% of max. but never over 85%, but also that ones MHB can vary +/- 20 BPM from any calculation. The piece I rowed today I did with my eyes closed most of the time so I was not conscious of my splits but just kept to a pace that I felt comfortable with. I was sweating at the end of it but not panting. I don't want to be "over training" but at the same time I want to make sure I am getting the maximum benifit from it. So, should I stick with the slightly faster rate and higher AHB or slow down to keep my AHB in the 70-80% window? All thoughts welcome.

Many thanks. jp
JP, first of all, if you're closing in on sub 20 minute 5K, that's fantastic, especially for 58! Nice work.

There are varying opinions on Polarized training. First of all, you're doing the 3 day 5K PP option. For those that don't know, that's a short/hard interval day (1' rest), an intermediate day (again rest shortened) and a TT day -- all essentially hard rows. Now you're adding on a longer optional SS day (much like you can do on the BPP).

Your comments on AHR (avg HR) depends on which session your doing but it seems you're asking about the longer, optional piece. To me, your paces seem a bit fast. You're already doing 3 harder pieces a week. The only purpose to add a fourth session is to build your "engine", your cardio. You don't want that session to be too fast. Most of my SS sessions are around 2:08 to 2:10 and I'm just a tad faster than you currently (but you might pass me up very soon!). I prefer Watts training over HR training. I like to keep my Watts around 60% to 70% of what I would do on a 2K. My Watts for my PB 2K this year was around a 283, so for me, I keep my SS work around mid to high 160s on Watts. To me, being over 50, I feel I need that to recover for the harder rows.

The other rule of thumb for the PP is keep your SS (longer Steady state) rows around 18 to 25 seconds slower than your 2K pace, which right now, for you, should be around a 1:49/1:50 pace (based on your 5K pace being around 20 minutes). If you're talking true Polarized training, you want to keep your SS sessions feeling like a 6 on a scale from 1 - 10. If you honestly feel like rowing at 2:04/2:05 feels like a 6 in effort, then continue. For me, that would feel more like a 7 or so, not too hard, but certainly not that easy either. If it's too hard, you're not adding in meters for cardio, you're making a 3 hard session per week plan into a 4 hard session per week plan. I don't know if that would be beneficial and it might even take away from your harder sessions and make them less productive.

This thread had some interesting discussions on the topic.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=184487
Image

Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

Andrew Shuck
1k Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: September 15th, 2018, 4:05 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Andrew Shuck » October 10th, 2018, 1:55 pm

Cheers Bob, and hello Janet.
Today i tried to improve on my 5 x !500...My excuse's are lack of sleep, getting up at 04:30 physical day at work. Not enough fluids or carbs.
so,
1:39.9
1:39.5
1:39.2
1:54.8 Uh :x
1:41.1
Ave/ 1:42.9
Should of been below !:40.6
Anyway i'll try again another day, no one died.
Male 57yrs. 6'1" 88kg.[u[/u] Left Hip Resurfaced June 2024.
Pb's achieved in 2019/20....500m 1:22.91k 3:00.2 2k 6:19.25k 16:50.5 10k 34:57.3 1/2 M 1:17:37.3 60min 16557 full M 2:45:52.7 2018 100k 7:37.27.1 23 Million meters to date
Just because you think you’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not..

jacket
Paddler
Posts: 21
Joined: September 7th, 2018, 12:50 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jacket » October 10th, 2018, 3:09 pm

Hi Mike

I agree with you, I need to slow down those longer pieces, I can't slow my stroke rate easily so will try and not pull as hard. I've never looked at my Watts but think that time has come.

Thanks for your thoughts, regards. jp

SowfLondonRower
500m Poster
Posts: 50
Joined: July 24th, 2018, 11:42 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by SowfLondonRower » October 10th, 2018, 4:43 pm

BPP 12.1: 10,000m - 2.10.3 pace. Nice and easy.

BPP 12.2: 4x1500m, 3min rest - 1:57.1 overall pace.
Horrible interval session, as it should be! (Not helped by having one too many beers last night) Splits:
1:58.7
1:58.7
1:58.6
1:52.6

Welcome Janet and JP, good to have you on board!
Rob, 26, 6'2", South London, new to rowing.

Started BPP 16/07/2018 @104kg. Finished 18/01/2019 @86kg.

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