Ranger's training thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
whp4
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by whp4 » June 25th, 2011, 10:13 am

ranger wrote:
JimR wrote:
ranger wrote:As I have mentioned, by and large, everyone the same age and weight rows at the same rate for the same distance.
You have more than mentioned ths ... you have posted it nearly every day for 10 years.

You have left out the difference between you and everyone else though ... you keep taking breaks, everyone else rows continously. Sadly, in trials and races the breaks count.

JimR
My Baltimore row in 2006, which I did without even preparing for it, was at 12 SPI, 6:29.7.

31.5 spm
I remember that row, it was your warmup for your stunning final appearance in Boston, the one where you were going to beat all the big kids while rowing with a lightweight stamp.

You are much better now, of course, because this year's best row was 2 seconds faster than that row in Boston :lol:

aharmer
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by aharmer » June 25th, 2011, 11:03 am

ranger wrote:
aharmer wrote:Okay, so instead of arguing how fast you can or cannot do this workout for 20 pages, how about you actually do it? Even better, since you're ready to do the workout now, set a specific date and time for the workout. Immediately after the workout, post results of the workout regardless what the numbers show. I mean honestly, let's put something of substance on here or put it to bed. If you man up and post this workout regardless of results, you'll prove your real condition and earn a little respect that has been sorely lacking for about 5 years.

So what day and time should expect to see it?
Yea, I'm ready for Zatopek 1Ks.

That doesn't mean that I'll do them, though.

Then again, it doesn't mean that I won't, either.

:D :D

Go with the flow.

ranger
Whoa!!! Hit the brakes!!! Guess you made a tactical error in your daily troll when you offered to do something that could be measured huh? No worries, nobody thought you'd do anything of substance anyway. Enjoy your paddle on the big lake, how many SPI do you lose hauling the floating beer cooler behind the boat?

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 25th, 2011, 11:20 am

aharmer wrote:nobody thought you'd do anything of substance
This morning, I did 12K working with 1:42 @ 27 spm (12.5 SPI), UT1 HR.

Felt great.

Eventually, I think I'll do it for a (continuous) HM.

The goal for this summer up here in Door County is to get into a routine of 20K OTErg just before dawn and then 20K OTW just after dawn.

Nothing of substance?

Think what you want.

No other 60s lwt at the moment can row 2K @ 1:42/6:48, fully prepared, rating 34 spm (9.8 SPI), HR at max.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

aharmer
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by aharmer » June 25th, 2011, 11:36 am

Yes, I said nothing of substance. What you claimed to do today was nothing of substance. As is always the case, you reserve the right to show something of substance to prove me wrong. I'd be willing to wager a large sum of money you fit into the category of individuals you belittle as unable to pull 6:48. Care to take my money?

leadville
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by leadville » June 25th, 2011, 1:01 pm

ranger wrote:
leadville wrote:hey rangerboy - fifth time - are you going to OKC for master's nationals? you inferred you were.

now's your chance to beat Mike vB and show us all. on a straight, buoyed course with no curves, too!

well, what's it gonna be, rangerboy, Yes, or No?
I am not in Mike's age category.

He's just a pupster.

You're just recently out of the womb.

BTW, I thought that Mike was taking a pass on sprints for this year.

No? Yes?

ranger
Answer the question, rangerboy.

Going to OKC, or not?
Returned to sculling after an extended absence; National Champion 2010, 2011 D Ltwt 1x, PB 2k 7:04.5 @ 2010 Crash-b

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 25th, 2011, 1:07 pm

JimR wrote:you keep taking breaks, everyone else rows continously
In both 2009 and 2010, when I was 58 and 59, I pulled a lwt 6:41, no breaks--again, at max drag, without even preparing for it, still struggling to change my technique.

No 58- or 59-year-old lwt has ever rowed that fast, fully prepared.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

JimR
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by JimR » June 25th, 2011, 2:11 pm

ranger wrote:My Baltimore row in 2006 when I was 55, which I did at high drag without even preparing for it, was at 12 SPI, 6:29.7.
Yap, yap, yap ... what have you done lately?

JimR

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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » June 25th, 2011, 5:54 pm

leadville wrote: (to ranger)
Going to OKC, or not?
I'll answer:
"Not"

It's a good thing,too.
As we all know so well, racing others erases the color yellow, Rich's favorite (and emblematic) color.

Rich knows he wouldn't even advance to the final...

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mikvan52
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by mikvan52 » June 25th, 2011, 6:03 pm

ranger wrote: when I was 58 and 59, I pulled a lwt 6:41...

No 58- or 59-year-old lwt has ever rowed that fast, fully prepared.

ranger
detail: There have been approximately 100 58-59 year old lwts who have bothered to max out for the 2k erg...

Rich: Congrats .. you're 1 in a hundred!

When are you going to attempt a max effort OTW?

answer (never...

Why?

answer: because that's where the most number of talented competitors row... that's where seniors put the most focus... not on exercise equipment...

Fear is a bitch, ain't it old troll-friend?
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 25th, 2011, 8:16 pm

In 2003, when I was a couple months shy of 53 years old, I pulled a lwt 6:28, albeit rowing badly at max drag.

No lwt that age or older, before or since, has ever come close to that.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 25th, 2011, 8:19 pm

mikvan52 wrote:Rich: Congrats .. you're 1 in a hundred!
Sure, the 6:28 at 53 was just the start of the show.

The goal now is 6:16 at 60.

The 30s lwt American record is Greg Ruckman's 6:16.5.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on June 25th, 2011, 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

Gus
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Gus » June 25th, 2011, 8:26 pm

ranger wrote: The goal not is 6:16 at 60.

The 30s lwt American record is 6:14.5.

ranger
See ranger can tell the truth. It happens maybe once every 100 pages or so.

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 25th, 2011, 8:29 pm

Gus wrote:
ranger wrote: The goal not is 6:16 at 60.

The 30s lwt American record is 6:14.5.

ranger
See ranger can tell the truth. It happens maybe once every 100 pages or so.
Sorry, but that's not the truth.

The 30s lwt American record is 6:16.5, not 6:14.5.

My mistake.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

Gus
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by Gus » June 25th, 2011, 9:06 pm

ranger wrote:
Gus wrote:
ranger wrote: The goal not is 6:16 at 60.

The 30s lwt American record is 6:14.5.

ranger
See ranger can tell the truth. It happens maybe once every 100 pages or so.
Sorry, but that's not the truth.

The 30s lwt American record is 6:16.5, not 6:14.5.

My mistake.

ranger
Ah, but the other part is still true.

ranger
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Re: Ranger's training thread

Post by ranger » June 26th, 2011, 3:57 am

JimR wrote:
ranger wrote:My Baltimore row in 2006 when I was 55, which I did at high drag without even preparing for it, was at 12 SPI, 6:29.7.
Yap, yap, yap ... what have you done lately?

JimR
Nothing special.

Just what I have been doing continuously over the last decade--working hard every day, learning, getting better (while everyone else has been getting worse and worse).

This has been my training plan.

In my estimation, over the last eight years, it comes out to be about 80 watts better than any other training plan (e.g., 340 vs. 420 watts in a 2K, 290 vs. 210 watts in a FM, etc.), or about 10 watts per year.

Of course, experienced OTW rowers such as Mike VB know this.

That's why they work endlessly on technique.
ranger wrote:
‪Re: Ranger's training thread‬
by ‪ranger » June 9th, 2011, 3:24 am
ranger wrote:
If you want to row, rather than just get fit using rowing, I would suggest this regimen as a training plan.

(A) Never use rowing just to improve your fitness. If you do, you'll never reach your potential as a rower. Sure, you'll get fit, but end up rowing badly. Rowing badly vs. rowing well is worth 10 seconds per 500 across all of the distances, a _gigantic_ margin that is large enough to convert anyone from one of the worst rowers to one of the best. If you aren't fit (e.g., because you are old, or because you have been a couch potato for a decade or two, or because you are young and have never had any experience with doing something that taxes your skeletal-motor and physiological capacities, etc.), get fit in other ways. Run, skip, bike, step, swim--a lot--a couple hours a day. Work easily at first, but long, and then work up to exerting yourself to the limit of your endurance, aerobic capacity, skeletal-motor abilities, etc. in as many ways as possible using your entire body. The most efficient way to do this, probably, is just hard, totally exhausting physical labor--chopping down trees, digging holes, carrying rocks, hiking mountains with a 50-lb. pack, etc.

(B) Always use rowing to improve your rowing. Make a checklist of the major things you must do in the stroke cycle to row well for your weight (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights). These might be included in your list.

(1) Get good length. Get all the way to shins vertical at the catch. The front of your seat should be only six inches from front stops when you fire off with your legs.

(2) Keep your hips/back forward at a good angle when you fire off with your legs. Hold that angle until your legs are done. At this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(3) Get your weight securely up on the balls of your feet at the catch, driving with your quads. Do _not_ take the catch with your heels and hams.

(4) Relax your shoulders at the catch.

(5) Relax your core at the catch.

(6) After about .1 seconds set your heels and stand up on the footplate, flattening your legs out with your hams. As in (2), at this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(7) Open your hips and swing your back with your core.

(8) While you are swinging your back, roll back up onto the balls of your feet and drive down on the footplate with the front of your foot using your calves.

(9) Keep your shoulders relaxed even though you have engaged your core, back, and calves.

(10) Pull through with your arms into your chest.

(11) Keep your elbows level as you pull the handle into your chest.

(11) Get a substantial lean with your back at the finish.

(12) Keep in good contact with the footplate at the finish. Point your toes and push the footplate away from you by digging in with your toes.

(13) Recover your arms as quickly as they finish.

(14) When you recover your arms, sit up tall and push the handle down toward your knees.

(15) Keep your knees flat on the rail until the handle sweeps past them.

(16) Recover your back as quick and fully as you did when you engaged it in the drive, returning to shins vertical (Prep Position). As in (2) and (6), at this point the handle should be over your feet, legs flat on the rail.

(17) The movements from (1) to (16) should be _very_ fast, 3/8 of the stroke cycle, at the most. If you count "And-ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-FOUR" as you do the stroke cycle as a whole, execute the movements from (1) to (16) in the first three pulses of this counting/beating: "And-ONE-and."

(18) Set you heels firmly when as you get into prep position.

(19) Break your knees and move the seat slowly toward the catch.

(20) As you do this, roll your weight slowly from your heels to the balls of your feet.

If technique in rowing is worth about 10 seconds per 500m, then as an approximation, each of these 20 technical points, I think, miight be worth a couple of seconds over 2K (.5 seconds per 500m).

All twenty of these technical points, taken together and mastered completely, are worth forty seconds over 2K (10 seconds per 500m).

When you get on the erg, your task in training is to master these things.

Each time you row, work on one of these twenty things, or some subset of these twenty things, that you know you do poorly, until you have mastered them all.

Put in 20K a session.

If you are fit, master all of these technical aspects of rowing, and are a big lightweight (e.g., 6', 165 lbs., right at the weight limit), you should pull a nice 1:43 @ 25 spm (13 SPI), just naturally.

If you are fit, master all of these technical aspects of rowing, and are a big heavyweight (e.g., 6'5", 220 lbs.), you should pull a nice 1:36 @ 25 spm (16 SPI), just naturally.

You are now one of the best rowers in the world.
ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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